Annalouiza (00:01.24)
Hello and welcome back our delightful listeners. This is a revisit to season four that we've just finished and are so delighted to sit here and kind of do a little remembering about who was with us for this season. And I am so in awe of how mystery works and how last season we really had a lot of doulas.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (00:20.546)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (00:30.392)
who were showing up and being on our podcast. And now we are very delighted to see that we have a lot of caregivers.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (00:30.413)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (00:38.955)
Right, yeah, and some authors and other things. But yeah, was such a, it was kind of a nice change in a way. And yeah, the companionship side of it just really seemed to come out. Everybody, almost everybody we talked to, even those that we're talking about who were writing books or writing poetry or reading poetry, which was one of our most favorite, were really talking about how they went through the end of life with their companions. Or was there a wife and friend in that case? So yeah, it's been so sweet and so moving.

Annalouiza (01:02.936)
That's right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:08.863)
in every way as always, just, yeah.

Annalouiza (01:11.768)
As always, you you and I have been, we're almost going to celebrate our two year mark of having started this project. Yeah. And what I really, our listeners might think we know just about everything to do with, you know, advanced care, director planning and end of life, but I am just so enthralled that I still learn things every time. And, know, I want to start out with,

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:18.883)
We're getting closer,

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:35.501)
Every time, yeah. Yeah.

Annalouiza (01:39.968)
a new term that Sarah had mentioned at the fiduciary term, right?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:41.919)
Mm, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was something that I had heard about, but I hadn't heard it in this context before, which I thought was really cool, which was the Sarah Ekline. And you can look her up and definitely recommend any of these we're talking about. Definitely think about checking them out. Go back to the website and go back and look at some of these are really good. But Sarah, yeah, she spoke about, she actually has an organization that provides fiduciary support to people basically as their

Annalouiza (01:53.272)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (02:06.743)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:15.907)
In an advanced care directive, you want to have somebody who's your healthcare agent and that's what they do for them. can hire their company and they will help you with all that kind of stuff. And it was just really sweet to talk to her. She's such a kind and thoughtful person and yeah, I really appreciate her.

Annalouiza (02:27.869)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And she's only working in California. And so if you're in a different state, it would be necessary to go and find somebody local so that they know the rules and laws from your state. But it is needed. And sometimes some of us, we're going to need a fiduciary on our team.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:37.089)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:43.443)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:50.243)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which is basically your representative. Basically that's what that amounts to. And she was episode 71, by the way, in case you want to go look her up. She was great. And we had others like that as well. had Jamie and Monica, yeah. And I'm just going to scroll back and take a look at those. Yeah, I do, yeah.

Annalouiza (02:54.924)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (03:06.23)
Monica. Yep.

Annalouiza (03:14.508)
Well, and I can talk about Monica too, because what I remember, she's from Canada, but lives in Mexico and has written an advanced caring planning book. And, you know, she talks about, she's just as, as verbose about this process as we are. Like it's so important to have families talk about what they want at the end of life. And she actually has a plan book for us. And was she one of the folks who give a lot of her service, like your little information away?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:23.651)
Okay.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:31.469)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:36.257)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:43.908)
Yeah, I believe so. know we also talked to Monica who did that. believe Monica actually had some, or maybe it was Kim or which one of them did it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And Liz had a, um, a website where you could actually download some information. Yeah. Monica Kamar, uh, episode 78 had, uh, had written a book called Beyond Loss, the Power of Purposeful Grief, has a complete family legacy planning framework program that she works with. So all of these people were really just.

Annalouiza (03:45.454)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (03:50.158)
Well, there was Liz. Liz was another planning for the end of life.

Annalouiza (03:58.242)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (04:04.278)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (04:08.84)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:12.395)
Again, it's so moving to hear about people who are dedicating their lives really to helping people go through this time and get their plans in place. And one of our premium episodes soon will be up about how to create your own advanced care directive. So look for that.

Annalouiza (04:17.56)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Annalouiza (04:27.064)
That's right. That's right. And if you don't have time, if you really are thinking about this right now, there's three different people from this season, this past season, who you could listen to and see what you can glean from their experiences and their free offerings about Advanced Care Directive Planning.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:36.717)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:42.732)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:46.423)
Yeah, each of them had websites with tons of great information on it. yeah, so thankfully you've got a good resource right there. You don't even have to wait for our premium episode, but please do. Or pay for our premium episode. But yeah, this is such a great, great resources and we're so blessed again to have met all these awesome people.

Annalouiza (04:48.318)
Mm-hmm. That's right.

Annalouiza (04:54.604)
That's right.

Annalouiza (05:01.207)
Yes.

Annalouiza (05:06.69)
Yep, so we're talking to some folks who are helping us plan the end of life. And then we also have people who are in a space where they can actually, they are talking to or being to, let's see, how should I say it? They're feeling better about continuing communicating with those on the other side of the veil, right? So for this, we...

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:24.887)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We met several of those and yeah, and I really love, yeah, like you said, there was what Mark Ireland. Yeah, he was great. And then Jay, Jay who was texting people. So that was pretty cool. And really I loved what, and Mark was really interesting I thought because his father was a well-known spiritualist or psychic. Yeah.

Annalouiza (05:41.464)
That's right.

Annalouiza (05:51.406)
Psychic. Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:53.508)
But he didn't really believe in that stuff, But then, you know, I guess was it his son? Yeah.

Annalouiza (05:55.922)
You

Annalouiza (05:59.501)
His son, yep, it was son that he heard it. And then he just like ended up like following these breadcrumbs of information that brought him to this like awareness that it is real.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:03.8)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:08.108)
Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:12.747)
Yeah, yeah, and I think it was actually that another psychic that he knew because of his father's connections contacted him and said, hey, your son has a message for you, you know. So he's now doing all this cool research with universities about this communication across the Bail or communication over time and space, which, any of us who've experienced that can witness that it happens as weird as it might seem.

Annalouiza (06:17.688)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (06:22.119)
Yeah, yeah, yeah

Annalouiza (06:29.174)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (06:40.245)
It does.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:40.437)
Yeah, it does. It actually does happen and it's actually such an incredible gift and blessing.

Annalouiza (06:44.622)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So then we head into elderhood and aging and the folks who are helping us learn more about this process at the end of life. Corinne and her book, Kienagers. Oh, gosh.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:55.555)
Yeah, Kareen. Yeah, she was great. How cool was that? Yeah. She found it a place called Choice Care Navigator. She's in episode 73, by the way. yeah, just the idea that we as teenagers, which I love that term, we deserve to have resources and be and dignity and care and just all the ways that we can

Annalouiza (07:08.994)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (07:16.71)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (07:24.386)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (07:25.665)
really participate in the end of our lives instead of just being shuffled off into a facility or something, you know, which, yeah. Yeah, what a cool guy.

Annalouiza (07:27.586)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (07:32.023)
Right. Which like then like launches us into a chef Dave who doesn't want us, doesn't want us using, well, he doesn't use the word facility for us. He is in community with people and wanting more folks to understand like, this is a time that we can serve with, with grace and dignity and give people agency around what it, what it is at the end of life. Right. So

Rev Wakil David Matthews (07:58.05)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (07:58.829)
He was so wonderful. I wish we knew more people were doing the kind of work he does. It is, that is.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:03.415)
Yeah, Chef Dave, he's a friend that I've known for a while and I just have always been deeply moved by his stories about how caring he is for the people in his community, his elder care community. And he goes and sits down with them at the meals and asks them what they like and don't like, you know, and he had some fun stories about people telling him, this is too salty, you know, whatever, know, and just, he cares, he cares so much. He sat with people as they died too, and he spoke about that.

He was just an exceptionally, I think probably pretty unique chef. And these people are eating gourmet food, you know, they're not eating truck food. So it was so, so really moving and wonderful to speak to the chef. So that's, I want to find which one that was so you can make sure you all go look at it. It was a 76. Yeah. Back in August, end of August. So cool. Yeah. That was, those are some great people.

Annalouiza (08:37.356)
Mm-hmm

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (08:54.103)
Yes.

Mm-hmm. And that launches us into Revenant Songs with Elizabeth out of Ireland and singing these ancient songs to guide folks across the veil or to honor their lives. I think we need more musicians. And we will get some for the next season. We will have some more talk of music. But yes.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:04.604)
yeah. Yeah. How cool was that?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:14.881)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:19.522)
Yeah.

We have some lined up that will hopefully show up. Musicians are hard to get a hold of. It seems like, I don't know. But yeah.

Annalouiza (09:29.486)
So yeah, Elizabeth had a lot to share around songs.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:37.41)
Yeah, well, and about the history of the Revenant songs, which are basically songs you sing to the dead. they're from Northern European music, like Ireland and Scotland. I think that's where she was talking about. she also does French chansons. She does a lot of music. She said she'd been doing music for as long as she could remember and singing. So I think we actually posted some of her music on the podcast notes so you can listen to that.

Annalouiza (09:39.342)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (09:51.298)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (09:55.138)
Mm-hmm

Annalouiza (10:02.722)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:04.119)
She's also a doctor. She's a medical doctor and she does mediation. So just an incredible person. And she was calling us from Ireland. So that was cool. A little tiny town in the west coast of Ireland called Westport. So yeah.

Annalouiza (10:06.05)
That's right, mediation.

Yeah.

So sweet. So we also talked about green burials with Mel who wasn't she the one that had the GPS coordinates and everyone. Yep.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:22.787)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:27.143)
Yeah, GIS they call it. GIS. Yeah, because she said she was in a meeting with a bunch of other funeral directors and she was talking about her idea of putting people in the ground in a forest with just planting a tree over them, right? And one of the old guys says, well, you can't do that. No, don't know where to find their people, right? And she said, first she was kind of like defensive, but then she said, no, actually that's a good point. And so they created this app that you can go to the forest where people are buried and you can

Annalouiza (10:41.77)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (10:46.028)
Ha ha ha!

Annalouiza (10:53.571)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:56.685)
pull it with the app and it like a GPS, it'll direct you to where the tree is and you can go visit your people, which is, I thought, just the most fascinating and wonderful thing of all.

Annalouiza (11:06.382)
It's kind of cool. Do you know what it also makes me think about is when my kids were younger, we do like geocaching and we'd go all over the place looking for the little box and write our name in there. But I'd be kind of cool to do like a geocaching like, know, trip to go and visit with people, know, ancestors of someone, but to say, how do you do?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (11:12.641)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (11:19.659)
Yeah, another version.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (11:25.951)
Yeah, yeah, that would be cool if you could just access a bunch of them, go walk around and find them wherever they happen to be. Yeah, that was very cool. We had some really wonderful people really speaking to the companioning people at the end of life. And Sarah and Gus had companioned Gus's wife, Andy, through her last three years of life while she was an incredible poet.

Annalouiza (11:30.263)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (11:34.732)
That's kind of cool.

Annalouiza (11:43.704)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (11:50.122)
Andy.

Mm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (11:54.626)
And so we really love that. We always love to do poetry, but this time we did poetry pretty much throughout the entire, we read one poem after another by Andy. so both of them had spent time with her and just this beautiful, beautiful conversation and poems by this woman who in the last three years of her life just wrote some incredibly moving, moving stuff.

Annalouiza (12:05.314)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (12:18.784)
Incredible. Well, not only is she a gifted poet, but what I really appreciate about Andy's

gift is to share with us what it is to be dying, right? To share with us, not the shame, not the hiding. You know, sometimes it's uncomfortable with the loved ones around her, but she just spells it all out. you know, oftentimes I wonder if people who are, you know, in transition with somebody who's dying from a disease or aging or a child, we're, you know, there might be like this barrier because it's embarrassing to like,

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:33.985)
Yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:44.579)
Right.

Annalouiza (12:59.246)
to like witness it, like, you know, I'm so sorry you're dying and I don't know what to do. And I love you and I miss you and I'm mad at you. And so all these different emotions just kind of must like sift through this time. And Andy nailed it.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:01.143)
Yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:15.331)
Yeah, yeah, it's just so totally right there. Yeah. No, pull no punches. And that's what I loved about it. It was just really raw, very raw and beautiful, beautiful. I'd recommend that one highly. That was episode 77. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely poets especially, but everybody we love. I poetry is one of the ways that we can speak to these things that are so hard to put into words. It's that's a gift, a gift of poetry. So Sarah Sawyer and Gus Reed were...

Annalouiza (13:18.797)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (13:24.152)
That's right. That's right. yes. If people are poets, please.

Annalouiza (13:39.64)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:45.143)
That was episode 77 at the beginning of September. So, highly recommend that one. That was beautiful. Yeah.

Annalouiza (13:47.969)
Mm-hmm.

It was. And then we finish off with a lot of companions, a lot of listeners and caregivers and supportive caregivers and supportive children. know, the death world is filled with so many different kinds of people who are are filling in these small spots, you know, to feed, to to plan and then to support as, you know, people are are

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:55.927)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:01.568)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:12.823)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (14:20.866)
going through it, right?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:22.051)
Yeah, exactly. Beautiful, beautiful people. We talked to Rabbi Rami Shapiro, who is someone I've followed for many years and just I love his work. And he's one of those people that I kind of think of as a rock star, you know. And so it was such a thrill for him to immediately write back to me when I wrote to him and say, of course, I'd love to be a guest. And he was just beautiful. He had written a book about communicating with children about the end of life.

And I just loved the way he spoke to that. And so he came and talked to us about that as a way to companion people. And I'm trying to find the name of that, which was, where was that one? Anyway, but yeah, there were others too that spoke specifically about the different kinds of ways that they speak to people. His thing, has a One River Foundation.

Annalouiza (15:08.332)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:13.121)
contributes to spirituality and Health Magazine and writes substacks of every other week. His article that led me to call him was called Of Knots and Rope, speaking to children. I love basically what he's saying is that life is like this rope going through and it goes on beyond the beginning and beyond the end. And when you're born is like one knot that got tied, right? And at the end, knot gets untied and you move on, but it's a continuous.

Annalouiza (15:24.301)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (15:36.482)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:42.211)
The energy is continuous. to speak to, just what a beautiful way to think about it, right?

Annalouiza (15:44.943)
So, you know, I want to just launch into Kyla the puppeteer because, know, talk, you know, so I found her in an article I read in the Denverite about someone who was taking roadkill and making puppets. And, you know, I have always wanted to be a taxidermist. And I, you know, sometimes have been known to pull over and bury animals off the side of the road. And Kyla.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:52.579)
Yeah, that was so cool.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:02.03)
Right.

Annalouiza (16:13.112)
takes these animals and gives them dignity at the end of life, I think, and makes them into puppets and then shares tales of death at libraries or wherever she's called. Make it normal to be OK with talking about death.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:18.593)
Yeah, yeah, very much.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:26.445)
Yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:30.411)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because she's talking to kids, even if she's just telling a story with the puppets, the kids are recognizing this was once a live being and now it's real, you know, reanimated in order to tell me the story. I loved what she said that the parents are the ones who kind of shy away, right? And the kids are, especially the girls, yeah.

Annalouiza (16:37.524)
Mm-hmm. That's right.

Annalouiza (16:43.32)
That's right.

Annalouiza (16:48.162)
Yeah. The girls are like, yes, let me touch. That's right. I really do love that. Like she's, you know, I can imagine it too. Like she's at a library. She does her story time. And then she's like, if you want to, you're welcome to come to the front and look at the puppets, right? Or touch. And she, and she says all the time, like, you know, girls up front have lots of questions. And then the parents in the back going like, I don't know about this. Yeah. So.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:03.085)
Yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:10.787)
Right. And the little boys are of going, I'm not sure about this. Yeah.

Annalouiza (17:17.878)
You know, I appreciate that. It seems macabre, and it's also a delightful realm. It's just, you know, it's, I don't know. So who else do we have who are doing caregiving? mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:24.119)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:30.596)
Yeah, well, we met Tim, who was actually a spiritual director, which both of us are, and I think we found him through the Spiritual Director Network. so he was specifically doing teaching or training people in spiritual direction around this deep, compassionate listening and end-of-life work. It was like his mission, basically. Wonderful, sweet man, as always. Who else did we meet there? Seth?

Annalouiza (17:38.23)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:59.788)
I love Seth, Seth's somebody we've both known for a while. He was actually one of our cohort and when we were back in seminary and he has his own podcast, which we were just on recently. It was so fun. But he had had a podcast where he talked about the way males, male people, emotional male facing grief and loss, how men specifically have a hard time with that. And so I really loved talking to him about that and really kind of opening up that dialogue about.

Annalouiza (18:00.089)
Seth, yep.

Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (18:08.782)
I think we were.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:29.251)
Yeah, it is hard for men. I've noticed when I'm to events or to... Now you know, you start looking, going to death duel events or you start going to any kind of online things, count them in and you'll find that there are 10, 15, 20 % at the most that show up. so it's really indicative that men have a harder time with that stuff. So we need to fix that. We need to open it up. Yeah. Yeah.

Annalouiza (18:40.366)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (18:44.013)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (18:47.668)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Well, we need to acknowledge it, right? We need to acknowledge that there's a disconnect. And maybe we haven't given men the space to do the grief work like we've assumed women have. you know, there's room for all of us to be learning about grief. So.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (19:04.141)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They say now that the higher percentage of funeral care people are now women, yeah. And it used to always was men before. So that's really awesome.

Annalouiza (19:14.294)
It's moving to women,

So we had Christine supporting caregivers because it is a heavy lift to be a caregiver to someone who is passing.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (19:24.919)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (19:31.062)
Yeah, exactly. She wrote a book which was really cool and good to see her working on that. I just interviewed somebody last week who will be on probably in December who also has written a book called the Pocket Guide for Caregivers. So we love finding these people who are really thinking about what it's like to be a caregiver because both of us have been or are caregivers. And just to really think about how important it is for the caregivers to take care of themselves, right, and to have the resources they need.

Annalouiza (19:44.238)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (19:57.475)
That's right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (20:00.597)
So yeah, any other folks that we always are Sam. my God. Let's not forget about Sam. Yeah, Sam Zemke. What a cool guy.

Annalouiza (20:06.337)
Wait, what? I, right?

Annalouiza (20:11.04)
So wait a second. So I want to say like we have wonderful, people on this show. always are so delighted to have intersected. But Sam was the longest recording we've ever made because this young man is wise and has a lot to offer us around death, companioning, not only for the humans.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (20:26.032)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (20:31.671)
Yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (20:37.219)
Exactly. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Yeah, he was wonderful. I think we actually, was episode 65 back in July, no June. But yeah, definitely check that one out. It was our longest one I think we've ever done. And we got done, we said we gotta quit because it's already in our, and our poor editor is gonna have a hell of a time and Sam's our editor. So, yeah, so we quit. Right, so he had to deal with it.

Annalouiza (20:39.01)
but for our world in general. Ugh.

Annalouiza (20:53.614)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

It was his job.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (21:05.741)
Which is good. It's karma, right? But yeah, even after we stopped, I remember we were sitting there talking afterwards and we're like, we should have kept the recording going. Cause yeah, what a brilliant man. And really what he was talking about is all the kinds of loss that we go through every day, you know, even down to the loss of the last breath, you know, or the loss of friendship or the loss of a job or just so many ways that we are dealing with loss and grief day in and day out. And I loved his work and his way of thinking about the world.

Annalouiza (21:10.562)
We were still talking. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (21:23.458)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (21:32.97)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Ugh.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (21:35.564)
What an incredible young man. Yeah. Yeah.

Annalouiza (21:40.111)
So there's plenty to sit and listen to and ponder and share so that maybe you and a loved one can like, you know, listen to something and then have a conversation because at the end of the day, that is our mission is for you, the listener to feel more comfortable using the words, using the themes around the end of life so that you feel confident for yourself or for your family member or for a neighbor or for a blade of grass.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (21:52.535)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (22:01.346)
Yeah.

Exactly.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (22:08.875)
Yeah, yeah, or for whoever you're sitting with or talking to, yeah, dinner parties. We both talk about how people quit inviting us to dinner parties because we keep talking about this stuff. But actually, my experience recently has been people want to talk about this, right? And they don't really, as they used to, they don't shy away as much as they used to. find myself in places, maybe because I'm sitting around with elders.

Annalouiza (22:09.868)
You know? Yeah.

Annalouiza (22:23.278)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (22:32.206)
I was going to say, think, I think like the 40 to 50 year olds are not really comfortable with this, but maybe 60, 70s.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (22:36.311)
Yeah, not ready. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, they kind of don't have to, they don't have a choice. know, they're, we are facing this, you know, pretty, pretty clean, clear, clearly it's coming. So yeah, that's, that's been my experience lately and I've enjoyed that. And I've enjoyed the fact that, that for me and for my people and for the people that we get together with and all of these people we've talked to over the 90 some episodes.

Annalouiza (22:50.574)
That's right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (23:05.613)
just every one of them is really working in the world to uplift this conversation and to create a way for all of us to know the resources we have and know the ways that we can talk about it and deal with it. And we also have talked about lately how much more there is to do, right? There's still people who are afraid of this and we've talked about the fear of death and we'll probably have some episodes talking about that at some point because that's a real big thing that we run into ourselves.

Annalouiza (23:33.782)
It is. And, and you know, if somebody out there's listening and thinks, I haven't heard a, this particular topic, whatever it is that you're going through or experiencing, please reach out to us because there's so much more to learn and think about and connect with. So don't be shy.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (23:48.802)
Yeah. Yeah. And we also really been thinking about how much we want to just talk to anybody who wants to talk about this. Now don't have to be end of life workers or authors or poets or any of the things you've heard so far. just, you know, we want to talk to anybody, everybody, especially younger people. If you're hearing this and you say, well, I'd like to talk to them about this. And it doesn't have to be, you know, morbid or anything. just, let's talk about what it feels like as a young person to consider that you're going to die someday, you know, and

Annalouiza (23:56.526)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No.

Annalouiza (24:05.55)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (24:17.378)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (24:18.091)
and what kind of things you might be wanting to deal with and take care of or dealing with your parents and all the different ways that this comes to our lives, comes into our lives.

Annalouiza (24:23.266)
That's right.

Annalouiza (24:27.086)
That's right. well, blessings on their journeys and ours as well, and all those folks who are moving beyond. Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (24:31.789)
Yeah.

It's been great to talk to you all again and we'll see you. Keep tuning in. We have a YouTube channel now, which at least we hope we do. We have trouble finding it, but it's working. But definitely we appreciate if you use to YouTube and see the video because then you get to see our lovely faces one day and also, our, you know, the communications that happen between us online and between our guests and us really are.

Annalouiza (24:45.194)
We do, probably.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (25:03.169)
more lively and more interesting, I think, when you can actually see us talking to each other. So highly recommend checking out the YouTube channel. And if you can at all, listen to the end. I don't care if you even walk away and don't listen to it, but if you leave it running to the end, we get more points, right? It makes difference for us. So tell all your friends and be in touch. Thanks so much. Adios.

Annalouiza (25:20.536)
Yeah.

Yes. Adios.