Rev Wakil David Matthews (00:02.046)
Welcome once again, everybody, to this episode of End of Life Conversations. Today we are speaking with Lisa Baue. I should have asked, how's that pronounced? Bowie, okay. I'll say that part again and it'll get edited. Today we are speaking with Lisa Baue. Lisa is a third generation funeral director and former owner who has worked in the death care and funeral profession since 1979.

Lisa (00:11.094)
it's bowie. That's OK. Long E.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (00:27.7)
For 38 years, she was the president and CEO of BOWIE Funeral Homes, Crematory and Cemetery in St. Charles, Missouri. She transformed it into one of the leading firms in the Midwest. Once she retired from ownership, she founded Your Funeral Coach in 2021 to provide consulting services to individuals and their businesses, assisting them with growth initiatives.

Annalouiza (00:53.951)
Yes. And through her coaching, she became passionate about advocating for women as leaders. And in 2024, she founded the funeral women. We started again. in 2020, oh, let's say take two. Yes. And I am the Reverend Mother Anna Louise Armendariz. And I'm so delighted to talk about Lisa.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:06.644)
And don't forget to introduce yourself. Start again.

Annalouiza (01:20.127)
One of the other items that she has been working through or coaching, she has become, she's become passionate about advocating for women as leaders. And in 2024, she founded the funeral women lead foundation, the first nonprofit organization dedicated solely to advancing and advocating for women as leaders in her profession. She published her first book, wake up calls in September, 2025. We'll be including a link to that in the podcast notes.

And since this won't be aired until 2026, we'll be sure to put it in our November newsletter. So thank you so much for joining us today. So glad you're here.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:52.339)
Thank

Lisa (01:58.418)
You're most welcome. Glad to be with both of you.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:58.601)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's really great to have someone in this profession. We had Jess Wakefield a while back. She was awesome and she's an amazing person. And you said you are familiar with her or know her. So we'd love to, first of all, just kind of start with when you first became aware of death in your life.

Lisa (02:10.828)
She is. I am.

Lisa (02:20.094)
goodness. That's a big question, Reverend Wachil David, because I actually grew up across the street, going to school across the street from my grandparents' funeral home. And Smith and Knight is a young child there many times as they were babysitting my brothers and I. So as curious children will do, you you wander down the stairs and probably go where you're not supposed to, but we used to play hide and seek in the casket room and...

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:23.069)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:31.154)
Mm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:45.565)
haha

Lisa (02:46.114)
So I think as long as we were cognitively aware, we understood death at a very early age. I can't exactly pinpoint what age that was, but we were around caskets and decedents, you know, in parlors most of our lives growing up, yeah, right next, right there in the funeral home with our grandparents, so.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:01.811)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:06.813)
Yeah, that's kind of a unique life, To grow up with that all around you. That's beautiful.

Annalouiza (03:07.261)
I love that.

Lisa (03:10.11)
It is. It is. My dad is as well. They moved over to St. Charles when he was about two years old and they started their very first funeral home. And daddy used to tell me stories about how they got the first air conditioning unit in the entire community. And he was so upset that my grandfather put it downstairs with the bodies and the caskets and they had to sleep upstairs in this two story home, which was converted.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:32.709)
You

Lisa (03:37.856)
and how hot it was. he and his brother and little sister would take their blankets and their pillows and they'd bring them downstairs and they'd sleep outside the parlors, you know, with all the smell of the flowers and everything else and because it was cooler down there. So we all just grew up with death being kind of very normal and in our family because we were just around it. Yeah, all the time. Yeah.

Annalouiza (03:44.155)
Mmm!

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:47.165)
Great.

Annalouiza (03:47.423)
you

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:50.055)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (03:52.659)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:56.488)
Yeah, yeah, it's wonderful.

Annalouiza (03:56.711)
Right, right.

Annalouiza (04:01.875)
Yeah, so I really love that because it just shows that it's not weird and ghastly and macabre. It's just what happens, right? So you have a foundation around the death industry, and that really has, if you could tell, because you're very comfortable. But how has death impacted the story of who you are today?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:07.549)
You

Lisa (04:10.219)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:12.531)
Hmm.

Lisa (04:13.249)
It is.

Lisa (04:26.2)
Well, that's also a very interesting question. think that it drives you to really, it's a caregiving profession. So it causes you to feel in your everything you do about giving back to those in your community, those who mourn and those in our profession. So we come from a very caregiving place in my family and in most, in most who choose funeral service as a profession. We.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:40.295)
Okay.

Lisa (04:54.316)
We believe in comforting others and taking care of others. Now, how does it also impact you personally? Sometimes we care more for others than we do ourselves. So we don't take a great, we're not really great at taking care of ourselves because we're so busy caring for others. And that's one of the reasons I started our Funeral Women Lead Foundation because we know that women are struggling in our profession.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:04.349)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:10.929)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:18.247)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (05:18.368)
especially in areas of the work-life balance because our schedules are a little crazy sometimes. Both of you know this, being ministers, it's not a nine to five job. And so you will have nights on call. Sometimes you don't get any sleep and you're up the next morning, you're serving a family, you're taking a funeral out, and then you start all over again. And so you could go for anywhere from five to seven nights where you just don't get a whole lot of sleep.

Annalouiza (05:23.933)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:24.285)
You

Annalouiza (05:38.387)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (05:45.75)
And that's one of the reasons we started the foundation. In fact, we have our very first wellness programs coming. It'll be gone by the time this podcast comes out, but it's this coming November. We'll have one every year for women in the profession to learn how to better take care of themselves in areas of physical, mental, and professional wellness as well, as they grow themselves as leaders. Yeah.

Annalouiza (06:00.585)
Hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:03.027)
That's great.

Annalouiza (06:07.101)
Hmm. Hmm. Might I add spiritual care to as a spiritual director? No.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:07.283)
Great, yeah. Well, yeah, it's spiritual care. Yeah.

Lisa (06:11.826)
Yes, did I not say spiritual? There is spiritual in there. There's spiritual, physical, emotional, mental, and professional. Thank you, there's four. You're absolutely right. We are going to talk about the spiritual side. You know, not everyone comes from a strong faith-based background, but they still, many of these young women coming into our profession have a lot of spirituality, and we want to help them find that as a way to ground themselves, especially as they struggle with the stressors.

Annalouiza (06:19.475)
Yes. Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:21.809)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:27.761)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (06:33.853)
right.

Lisa (06:40.45)
that are abundant in our profession as I've just shared.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:40.465)
Yeah, yeah. That's so important. as interfaith ministers, we also call ourselves interfaith or nofaith, count companions, you know, that we work with people because people, whatever they find divine, whether it's the woods or the, you know, physics or stars or whatever, you know, it's all the same thing. And we're all talking about the same thing. And we all have that inside of us in one way or the other. I'd like to know more about

Annalouiza (06:41.939)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (06:47.101)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (06:51.118)
Right.

Annalouiza (06:54.26)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (07:09.805)
Well, Owen, I'll just point out too that we will let you know about it when we're doing our November newsletter. And we can certainly post that in the November newsletter, the workshop you're doing. So we'll send something out to you about that. And tell us more about your own work, you're doing, this new project of working with, you have your own podcast, you said, for women in a...

Annalouiza (07:17.746)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (07:18.606)
That would be awesome. Thank you.

Lisa (07:31.542)
I do, I do. So actually Funeral Women Lead, the foundation, we've started a podcast with three other women, two of them are on our board and another woman who's soon to become in the next couple of years, the very first woman president of the National Funeral Directors Association, which is the largest international organization serving our profession in the world. And so the four of us came up with this great little

Rev Wakil David Matthews (07:36.156)
Okay.

Lisa (07:56.534)
little name, well actually it was one of the girls who said, hey, how about four women in a funeral? And all of us being funeral directors were like, yeah, that would be great. So we talk about everything women, everything, funeral service, just basically a lot about our own personal stories. At the same time, we share, I think, the wisdom of the ages in some respects because all four of us have different backgrounds and stories.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:02.918)
You

Annalouiza (08:06.867)
That's awesome. I love that.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:07.077)
You

Lisa (08:25.418)
Some are very similar, where we lost our parents at very young ages. I lost my father at, he was 53, I was 30 when I took over the family business. And another one of our podcast members is also Ellen McBrayer, same situation. She was in college when her dad died and she headed off to mortuary school and came into the family business and is now working with her mother as the CEO and the owner.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:28.967)
Mmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:33.587)
Hmm.

Lisa (08:52.416)
So losing a parent at a very, having a parent die at a very young age has a great deal of impact when you're in the death care field. Because sometimes we experience grief, we're around grief all the time, but we've never really experienced it ourselves on that personal level. Another one of our podcasters is also lost, had her mother die at a very young age too, and she took over her family business.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:01.884)
Absolutely.

Annalouiza (09:02.835)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:11.249)
Yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:20.467)
Mm.

Lisa (09:20.942)
It's impactful in ways that drive us to become leaders in our future, but it also has some challenges to it because it sets us back a little bit. Is it the same time you're a daughter, you're mourning, and you're serving in the funeral profession. And so how you deal with all those stressors along with the work-life balance, along with being around grief and loss during your everyday life is something else that we struggle with.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:32.018)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (09:47.783)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (09:50.84)
So we talk about that. We've got a podcast coming up. We're going to talk a little bit about what do we do when we were moms and what do you do with the babies? And there's a lot of young single women out there that are in our profession. Some of them are raising children and helping them with some of their struggles and what to do with, you know, single mom working in a not a nine to five business and trying to maintain your sanity sometimes, right? So.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:50.909)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:57.8)
Hmm. yeah.

Annalouiza (10:02.729)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (10:13.043)
Right. Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:14.555)
Right?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:18.119)
Yeah, yeah.

Lisa (10:18.926)
These are things that we talk about and there's no topic that I think we won't talk about. So we're on our fourth podcast coming up soon. And we're going to talk about grief and the holidays because the holidays can be a really tough time. It's a big one. Yeah. Yeah.

Annalouiza (10:21.151)
Hmm

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:25.263)
Yeah

Annalouiza (10:26.536)
Yay!

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:27.901)
Great, excellent. That's such a good, yeah. Yeah, big one. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's really interesting. And it's interesting too, the way that these kind of synchronicities happen, if you will. We were working together for many years and I started a class on planning friend of life and et cetera. And then last year, my wife had a diagnosis that is...

terminal diagnosis. And so I'm living the things I've been talking about for so many years, right? And she's doing very well right now, but just, you know, it's been, it's been a, it's been a really kind of like what you're talking about, kind of a, you know, now it's, now it's mine to live, you know? and so it makes a difference and it helps, in a way it helps because I can also, as I'm doing counseling or work with people, I can really kind of empathize better maybe than I could. So.

Lisa (11:00.334)
my gosh

Annalouiza (11:00.487)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (11:05.208)
Yeah.

Lisa (11:12.866)
Right, right.

Annalouiza (11:13.47)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (11:24.243)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lisa (11:24.418)
You you bring up a very good point. think until, and I was a young funeral director and I had a grandparent or two die during those early years before my dad died. And I had been licensed for eight years. And until I actually experienced, I think a really difficult death, Reverend Joaquin David, I did not understand, I think, some of the real pain that you go through during grief and times of grief and loss and mourning.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (11:51.325)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (11:51.721)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lisa (11:54.496)
and why it's so important that we go through those processes of having the mourning and having a funeral and having a life honoring event that helps us heal. And that's one of the things I think funeral service is struggling with right now with families who are pushing away from death, not necessarily the death itself, but because they're hurting so much, they don't understand that the part of

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:04.808)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (12:04.863)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:13.085)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (12:13.299)
Right.

Lisa (12:22.234)
learning to mourn correctly is being spending time with the decedents after they die, being there, having a service or a ceremony of some sort that helps them in the healing process. And so when you go through what you're going through right now, and I'm so sorry, because I know it's difficult. lost, had my mother die at a very, I thought young age, she was 72. And she was unfortunately a lifetime smoker.

Annalouiza (12:26.483)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:47.699)
Mm.

Lisa (12:52.018)
And just her way of death and under hospice care was so hard to watch her go through that. And you as well, because you pre-mourn. You start pre-mourning that death, which can also challenge you, especially at the same time you're over here serving families and you're caring for families. But you do start to empathize even more once I think you walk in those shoes. Yeah. Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:56.935)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:01.093)
Mm-hmm. Yep, absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:08.636)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (13:14.143)
Absolutely. Yeah. Do you want to say anything else, Akil?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:17.073)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:23.411)
Well, just the other piece of that, think, is really kind of become... I mean, our mission to begin with was to destigmatize this conversation, right? But we're also learning about, through these things, the stigma that's around the idea of grief, or as you were talking about, around the idea of mourning or ritual, the idea of hospice, even, you know, the idea that if you go into hospice, you're giving up.

Annalouiza (13:34.111)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (13:34.178)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (13:44.799)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (13:51.199)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:53.556)
Or if you know, this whole way of speaking about cancer is like, you're going to, you've lost if you, you failed, if you don't win the fight against cancer. We just really want to change that dialogue. So that's, that's really kind of part of all of our work, I think, is to just make sure people are comfortable and understand that you can get wonderful care in hospice. You should do it as soon as possible, you know, and you can, yeah, yeah.

Lisa (13:53.784)
Great.

Annalouiza (14:07.891)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (14:19.601)
Right.

Lisa (14:19.668)
you can. And the hospice chaplains are amazing. The nurses are amazing. One of my closest friends, they are angels, owns her own hospice company back in Missouri. And she and I kind of grew up together, both her doing the home health care and hospice side. And my mom was her first, very first patient when she started her non-for-profit hospice. I learned so much about the hospice care during that time.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:24.881)
Yeah, yeah, angels.

Annalouiza (14:24.979)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:36.029)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:40.211)
Well...

Annalouiza (14:46.291)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (14:48.138)
I'd be on the phone with her every other day going, is this normal? Is this right? I need you to go talk to my mom because she's not listening to me. And I can't tell you the care that we received, how much that meant. I would highly embrace anyone who is facing this to consider hospice as soon as they can. I totally agree. Totally agree. Yeah. And also, I'm going to put a little plug in for funeral service. Consider pre-planning.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:50.301)
Hehehe. Hehehe.

Annalouiza (14:50.941)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:56.644)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:01.799)
Yeah, it's so incredible.

Annalouiza (15:01.885)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (15:08.371)
That's right. Yes.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:09.331)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, very important.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:15.771)
Yeah.

Lisa (15:17.134)
And the reason I want to say that is because I know how valuable it was. When my dad died, I'll never forget back in 1987, sitting there with him the week before he died, and we were working a funeral together. And we were sitting out, sitting someplace afterwards. And I said, you know, dad, have you planned your funeral? Because we have a whole pre-planning side of our business, right?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:36.861)
Hahaha.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:40.541)
Right?

Lisa (15:41.07)
And we've been helping families pre-plan since the 1960s. And this is 1987. And I'm like, he goes, oh, you know, you kids will know what to do. Your mom knows what I want. And I'm like, really? Are you kidding me, dad? We're funeral directors. We help families pre-plan. We believe in the value of it. And yet you're telling us we'll know what to do. He goes, when you get back from this trip, we are going to sit down and plan your funeral. Well, he didn't get back. It was that trip when he died.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:50.694)
You

Ha

Annalouiza (15:59.744)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:02.131)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Ha ha.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:09.491)
Wow, my.

Lisa (16:11.626)
So he's in Nashville, Tennessee, and it's in my book, Wake Up Calls. I just show a little picture because I love my cover. This is me sitting underneath an oak tree at our cemetery overlooking the lake. So this is where I go for peace and quiet and places to contemplate. But it seriously was a shock. Dad dies very young at a heart attack not knowing he was going to go.

Annalouiza (16:28.447)
Hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:33.596)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (16:33.791)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (16:38.966)
And so what do you do? So you try to figure it out on the fly. Now here we are. I'm a funeral director. My mom is licensed, but never worked in it. My brother is a funeral director. My husband is a funeral director. We're all sitting around going, we don't know what to do. So that's not a good place to be. I would like to encourage people though to bring their, get their family involved. Cause sometimes we say things like, I don't want a funeral. Just cremate me or scatter me or

Annalouiza (16:39.007)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:53.363)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (16:53.469)
Wow. Wow.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:02.502)
Absolutely.

Annalouiza (17:02.515)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lisa (17:08.342)
or bury me, but it's the funeral process itself. You know, you both have been in the church setting. It's the ceremony that gives you the healing. It helps you start off on the right foot. Dr. Alan Wolfelt, who's a world renowned thanatologist, is one of my good friends. And if you haven't read any of these books, they're just amazing. But he talks about the value of mourning. And he also discusses why mourning is helpful.

Annalouiza (17:12.275)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:12.285)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (17:18.015)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:19.527)
Yeah. Yeah.

Annalouiza (17:21.407)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:33.8)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (17:37.523)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lisa (17:37.556)
not hurtful and how it helps you heal and without going through the processes let your family have decisions if they want to see you after you die let them you know mel robbins wrote this great book called let them so kind of i just recently read it and she's she i could come back to this it's like if your family wants to have flowers let them if they want to have music right if they want if they want to see you and spend time with your body

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:41.053)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:48.145)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (17:48.499)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:52.253)
Yeah

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:59.006)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (17:59.124)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:05.138)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (18:05.321)
Yeah.

Lisa (18:05.762)
give, allow them to have that opportunity because you're gone, you're in a better place. We know that. Our faith tells us we're going to be in a better place. And hopefully all of us believe that, but I do. And it's more important how they live without us and allow them to have that morning process. I just think that's so extremely important.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:12.083)
You

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:25.171)
Yeah, I love that. I heard somebody else recently say, you know, you're not going to be there. So why do you care about what happens? You you should really, yeah, you should really be aware. Well, even if you do, and you should absolutely have agency and say what you want to have happen. But on the other hand, you should be open to the fact that your family may make a different decision and they're the ones who are carrying on and are dealing with it. So that's a really good point. Very important thing to.

Annalouiza (18:33.992)
Right.

Annalouiza (18:41.823)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (18:42.264)
Sure.

Annalouiza (18:46.483)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (18:51.583)
That's right.

Lisa (18:52.386)
They are, and I can't tell you how many families I have served over the years where their loved ones have made decisions in advance and they've come in and they say, I wanna follow mom or dad's wishes, but I feel so guilty because I need this. I need to see them. I need to have a funeral. And some people today, consumer choices are saying, I don't like funerals. Well, you don't have to call it a funeral. You can call it a celebration of life, a life honoring event.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:59.303)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (19:00.671)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (19:06.557)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (19:06.846)
Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (19:10.002)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (19:10.056)
Right.

Annalouiza (19:17.725)
Right. Right.

Lisa (19:21.477)
it a gathering, whatever you'd like to call it as a name, allow your survivors to have something. You have, I mean think about it for a second, we've lived all of our lives and we have had wonderful experiences and it's those experiences that they want to share with their friends and family who are there. They need that comfort and healing. They need somebody to come up and give at an event where they can give you a hug. That felt so good. I mean we

Annalouiza (19:23.807)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (19:42.409)
Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (19:48.551)
Yeah.

Lisa (19:50.914)
We, my little brother and I had our other brother die in California last year. And we couldn't bring him back right away because it was an unattended death. But we went ahead and had a funeral without his presence because we needed the comfort of the community and our friends and family around us to say, to give us their sympathies. We needed to mourn him. And we celebrated and mourned his life in a very special way within about three weeks of his death. And then,

Rev Wakil David Matthews (20:03.603)
Hmm.

Annalouiza (20:06.483)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (20:12.233)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (20:19.091)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (20:19.103)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (20:20.322)
when we finally were able to bring him back home. It was around Christmas time where we had a final burial for him at our family lot. And we had another service, a little ceremony there outside at the graveside. And then we all helped fill in his grave. And very ceremonial, very participatory. Those are the kind of things that your family, your survivors will need to have.

Annalouiza (20:36.233)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (20:39.837)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (20:44.125)
Exactly,

Annalouiza (20:44.243)
Yep. So I'm going to jump in because, whew, I'm going to jump in. There's a lot of things I want to go back to, though. So one is that our listeners are multi-faith. So I want to just acknowledge that some folks don't have an idea of what happens after their loved one dies and will be supported through their grief process, regardless of faith. Two, it doesn't have to be a church.

Lisa (20:50.2)
Yes.

Lisa (20:54.614)
Yay! That's good.

Lisa (21:06.275)
Yes.

Lisa (21:09.911)
Nope.

Annalouiza (21:10.151)
It doesn't have to be any kind, like I love the idea. And we interviewed somebody who really helped people who are not faith folks to find a place. Like literally we had somebody who hosted a celebration of life at a hotel with a like champagne bubbler, right? Because her mom was not a faith person, but was a delightful, sounded just great, funny person.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (21:20.947)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (21:26.082)
Yeah. sure.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (21:26.333)
Ha ha ha ha.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (21:36.051)
You're trying to find, yeah.

Annalouiza (21:37.278)
Yeah, I was like, I would have gone to that one. So just to encourage people, like we can plan and we, know, mom and dad may say what they want and you could do what they want. And then, you know, time later, go find, you know, a really wonderful and, and safe place to do all the things that are important to you. Also, you know, the pre-planning piece, I know that pre-planning, mean, while Kiel and I do a lot of the advanced care directive planning and

Lisa (21:37.898)
Yeah.

Lisa (22:00.398)
Yes.

Annalouiza (22:05.673)
try to get people to make the choices ahead of time. And it is kind of a thing right now that people are wanting to be like prepay. so it's not, I wanna say some families can't do that and some families don't trust that process because they've been harmed. But you can still write it down and it's not that you have to ignore it. that's what I wanna just like also throw out to the listeners.

Lisa (22:08.386)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (22:14.126)
Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (22:20.445)
Yeah.

Lisa (22:21.144)
totally understand. totally understand. Exactly. Exactly. There's so many options out there. You're absolutely right, Anna Luisa. You do not have to prepay. can't just write it down. Almost every funeral home organization is going to have a company in the death care field will have some kind of booklet or something to help guide you. There's lots of guidance out there. If you choose to go online and find it.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (22:24.701)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (22:34.931)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (22:50.904)
But I do encourage everyone to just write their wishes down. It's kind of funny. My brother was not religious at all. He was in his early years, but not faith-based. So his celebration of life was not faith-based. It was very spiritual. He motorcycled and biked all through the mountains of California and other close states. And he was very much of an outdoors guy. And so we celebrated that. And we had his motorcycle helmet there and his bicycle helmet.

and we had all kinds of cool things about Mark and every one of our songs were very rock and roll and know fun they were just all about Mark and it had to be because it was about his life we were honoring and the things we did were non-traditional because that's who he was and exactly so you find your place of who you are and have that expressed and share I can't encourage people more to just

Rev Wakil David Matthews (23:28.157)
Haha.

Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (23:34.599)
Yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (23:39.987)
That's who he was,

Rev Wakil David Matthews (23:44.861)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (23:45.375)
That's right.

Lisa (23:48.084)
share their stories and their memories of growing up and their childhood because your children, I've heard my kids talk sometimes, yeah, mom, it was like this and it was like that. I said, no, no, no, it wasn't. And it says, it was like this. so, people your story, your life story and writing it down, I would encourage people to do that. I think that would be a wonderful gift to give to your family. Yep.

Annalouiza (23:50.271)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (24:08.553)
That's right.

Yep. So what are the biggest challenges that you find in your profession?

Lisa (24:19.689)
Well, as an owner, part of our biggest challenge was to really find great people who are passionate about what we do and to train them well. It is not a profession for everyone, but it can be a wonderful profession for those who truly want to give back to families that are hurting. And so,

finding those people was kind of a challenge and retaining them, especially the next generation coming up. They're searching for their place in the world and they haven't quite found it yet. So because they have been touched by death, especially during the pandemic, we're seeing a large influx of young people coming into our profession. Yes, I know we're super excited about it. However, they have some different needs. They're not the same as baby boomers.

Annalouiza (24:51.913)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (24:57.875)
on my phone.

Annalouiza (25:02.803)
That's right. That's right. Yay.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (25:06.643)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (25:13.358)
who have this work ethic of not nine to five and we are, you know, we'll work 40 hours plus 40 hours a week sometimes. Not good for our health, by the way. And they're asking for different scheduling changes. They're asking for a different culture and an environment in the workplace, which our current employers are struggling sometimes to change and adapt to. Because we are a 24 seven business.

Annalouiza (25:22.367)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (25:22.919)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (25:24.991)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (25:42.238)
You have to learn to be flexible with your shifts and your schedules. So that's been a big challenge in the profession overall, as well as changing consumer preferences with families who are doing exactly what we just talked about, sometimes not believing that there needs to be a service or a ceremony or some kind of celebration of life. And so because of that, we have all these great

Annalouiza (25:45.075)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (26:08.12)
caregivers in our profession who want to give back and want to help people, but people don't necessarily see value in what we do. And so that has been one of our biggest challenges. And I think adaptation. The world is changing so quickly. Everything during the pandemic caused us to move towards things like live streaming and to change how we do business. So funeral service wasn't really operating in the 21st century.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (26:15.879)
Yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (26:23.249)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (26:23.475)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (26:29.074)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (26:37.658)
You

Lisa (26:37.838)
when the pandemic hit. And it was a big, big challenge for most of the providers. So we've caught up. Most of us have caught up. There's been great companies come in and help us with all the new technology needs and things, but not all the funeral homes are quite there yet. And these young people are coming in expecting all the technological things. You can do everything on an app now these days, and there's AI that can help you write an obit. And so adapting to the change of the challenges of

Annalouiza (26:43.41)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (26:53.192)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (26:53.331)
Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (26:59.292)
Right.

Annalouiza (27:00.019)
Yeah.

Lisa (27:07.534)
what's just going on in the world, I think, has been a struggle. But these young people coming in are awesome, and we want to help them find their home and find their place in our profession. And that's one of the things we're doing at Funeral Women LEAD because over 75 % of the women graduating in, over all the women graduating in mortuary schools today, 75 % are women, according to the American Board of Funeral Service Education in 24.

Annalouiza (27:09.681)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (27:11.079)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (27:17.607)
That's so great.

Annalouiza (27:17.695)
That's wonderful.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (27:31.091)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Lisa (27:35.372)
So we think that number's gonna continue to grow.

Annalouiza (27:37.727)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (27:37.829)
Yeah, we've been seeing that and we've been seeing a lot more death doulas. When we talked about planning and walking you through this whole process, death doulas have been really a big part of the of the growing new group of people that can help out with this and work together with funeral homes and stuff. So it's really wonderful. Go ahead.

Annalouiza (27:40.265)
Yeah. Yep. And yeah.

Lisa (27:41.986)
Yes, yes.

Yes?

Annalouiza (27:51.444)
Yeah.

And not only that, but culturally diverse too. We interviewed somebody who was like, we're brown and we're queer. Like, you know, move out of the way.

Lisa (27:57.933)
Yes.

Lisa (28:01.538)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, the cool thing about women in our profession is as I go to these different conferences and I meet with a lot of the new young people in the profession like Jess Wakefield that you've had on your podcast, they are so open to anyone. mean, women seem to, not that the guys aren't great, but they try. Women overall, really in our profession have been embracing each other no matter where you come from.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:01.779)
Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:13.554)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:18.408)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (28:18.431)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:23.855)
Thank

Annalouiza (28:30.047)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (28:30.858)
and what you look like, how you're built, how you choose, make your choices in your life, and who you are. mean, we're just women together, right? Right, even if you're trans, even if you're whatever you are, it doesn't matter. It matters that you're in this profession and you care with your heart to serve others. And that's bottom line, bottom line. Yeah, right, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:30.899)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:39.601)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (28:42.143)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:42.179)
Mm It's so good.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:48.669)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (28:52.767)
that's beautiful. I love that. That's a good. That's a great coat right there.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:53.669)
Yeah, that is. Right there, right there. Exactly. So how do you, you showed us your beautiful book. I love that cover. And that's a good answer to this question perhaps, but we'd really like to always understand and help our audience understand the ways that we can resource ourselves. So in your work, how do you take care of yourself? How do you take, you know, self care and work life balance you've mentioned?

What do you do? What are your practices that help you stay balanced, stay centered and grounded in the work, especially when it gets overwhelming?

Lisa (29:26.99)
Lisa (29:30.552)
Good question, good question. This last year forming this new organization and the foundation at the same time my book launched was probably not the best idea to do all at the same time. My husband and I live on this beautiful little ranch in Colorado where we have some horses and some beautiful views and I just get back out in nature. One of my balances is I have to get my hands in the dirt.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (29:40.403)
Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (29:52.819)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (29:58.294)
you know, pardon the pun because I owned a cemetery too. But I love gardening and I just love wildlife. So I like to get out and do time in the great outdoors. That's really important to me. I also have some horses and I've been a horse girl since I was very young. There's a little story in my book, Wake Up Calls about the Shetland ponies and my grandfather. His vacation home was on the farm, a little farm that he bought because he grew up on a farm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (30:11.559)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (30:25.267)
Mmm.

Lisa (30:28.182)
And then they had to move to St. Louis during the Depression because they lost everything. And they, he wanted to go back to a farm for his vacation home. So he, he bought some acreage with a working farm and he would just go get his hands in the dirt and get dirty. And, and he taught his oldest granddaughter how to do the same thing. So I was out working in the garden with grandma growing things. And then we had ponies to break. We had cows to milk. We had pigs to feed. We had, gosh.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (30:46.728)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (30:54.035)
Ha

Annalouiza (30:54.303)
You

Lisa (30:56.782)
eggs to fetch from the chicken coop and so I kind of grew up the old-fashioned way in learning how a working farm really operates and that's where you get your food and your nutrition from and you get your hands dirty too.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (31:07.603)
Yeah, that also teaches us about death as well because you have to harvest those animals and those plants for that matter. And yeah, yeah, so that's another good teacher for folks. Yeah.

Annalouiza (31:12.371)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (31:12.855)
It does.

You do. Absolutely you do. Yeah. Yeah, you do. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Annalouiza (31:23.071)
So we like to finish up our conversation with offering you an opportunity to ask us to say what we might have wanted to ask you. Like, what could we have asked you? What did we ask you?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (31:31.975)
Yeah, what didn't we ask you?

Lisa (31:34.072)
What didn't you ask? Well, gosh, there's, well, it's all in the book. If you want to learn anything about my life and what I believe in and how a funeral home company needs to run and take care of their employees. I think that my biggest wake up call was when I realized I wasn't a good boss. I wasn't a good leader. I I grew up in a very German family with a good work ethic, but I didn't know how to manage people.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (31:54.451)
Mmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (32:01.875)
Hmm.

Lisa (32:02.246)
And one of the things I would encourage any young person who's considering this profession is when you go off to get additional learning, learn leadership. Learn how to manage others, learn how to care for others in your company and be a good team member. Because this is a very stressful job we're in. It's a very stressful profession and it can take a lot out of you. But when you have a good team that you are developing and caring for, recognize that they're

Rev Wakil David Matthews (32:16.093)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (32:19.815)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (32:31.862)
mourning and grieving and struggling as well, and be a better caregiver of your employees. And this is something I didn't know how to do when my dad died. My dad was a wonderful caregiver, by the way. Everyone loved him. But I didn't have the skillset. I didn't understand leadership. And until that came in my life through a lot of mistakes and a lot of wake up calls, I really didn't.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (32:34.397)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (32:38.633)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (32:38.757)
Yeah, so important.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (32:48.017)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (32:53.395)
Hehehe.

Lisa (32:57.482)
know how to treat our staff as well as I was caring for the families we served because I thought our role was really to care for the families and I needed to take that same level of care and learn how to give it back to my staff. And so that was not a great time in my life when I realized, I when I got coached, I went out and found a coach and a business coach and I said, you know, our culture is not great. Something's happening here.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (33:01.745)
Yeah, yeah, that's really good.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (33:10.705)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (33:15.461)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lisa (33:25.684)
really, it needs fixing. And I think I'm the problem. So recognizing that you're the problem, I think is something that is very eye opening for all of us. So yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (33:28.197)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's a good discernment. And I think probably applies to anybody, anywhere, whether or not they're leaders. you just, yeah, just being compassionate with each other and caring for each other and, you know, knowing that we're all going through stuff all the time. So that's a great, great advice. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. Well, it's really been a wonderful opportunity and really appreciate you and all you're doing. Such an incredible good work. And we will let you know when it goes live.

Annalouiza (33:40.703)
Yeah, I was gonna say neighbors and.

Lisa (33:51.128)
That's right. Yeah, you're so welcome.

Annalouiza (33:51.263)
That's right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (34:05.853)
For now, we'll say goodbye and thank you again for joining us today.

Lisa (34:10.232)
Well, Reverend Mother Luisa and Reverend Joaquin David, right? I'll use a little bit of my Spanish. That is one thing. I majored in Spanish and majored in Portuguese and I'm a little rusty, but I still have a little of the acento. So I so admire the Hispanic people. They are the biggest caregivers I've ever met in my career. And as I lived with a family down in Mexico for a summer.

Annalouiza (34:10.409)
Thank you.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (34:14.983)
Hehe.

Heh.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (34:23.76)
You

Rev Wakil David Matthews (34:31.101)
Hmm. Hmm.

Lisa (34:35.914)
I learned how much that they would just, they would give you everything, the clothes off their back. They would just, here, it's yours. I learned a lot of that from them. So it's a pleasure to meet you both and thank you to your listeners as well. And if I can ever be support to anyone that's looking to get into the profession, please don't hesitate to email me at lisa at funeralwomenlee.org. And we're happy to help you. Yeah, happy to help them. Okay.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (34:40.211)
Mm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (34:45.129)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Annalouiza (34:47.347)
Likewise. Thank you so much.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (34:50.322)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (35:01.124)
That will all be in our notes as well. All right. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye-bye.

Annalouiza (35:01.619)
Wonderful.

Lisa (35:05.55)
Take care. Bye bye.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (00:02.964)
So great. We love to have a poem read at the end. And Lisa, you brought us a poem. Would you like to go ahead and read that for us?

Lisa (00:10.19)
I did bring you a poem. It's from chapter 10, page 159 of my book, Wake Up Calls. And I took the poem off of Keith Keese poem called Do It Anyway, and a very similar poem written by Mother Teresa. So I wrote it for those in funeral service and death care that are struggling in their own leadership and sometimes in their own personal life. It's a few words to help them remain strong and find their grit.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (00:16.5)
Beautiful.

Lisa (00:39.692)
If you are faced with self-doubt and you want to quit, lift yourself up anyway. If you are struggling with your education and you feel way behind, continue to learn anyway. If you want to defend yourself and your heart has been hurt, remain strong and open your heart anyway. If you want to succeed and you need real support, seek help anyway.

If you seek to become a leader but feel you have nowhere to turn, seek others to teach you and become a leader anyway.

If you feel your voice has been silenced and you have something to say, speak up anyway.

If you are not sure whether you will ever reach your dream, keep reaching for it anyway.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:30.058)
Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, keep reaching for it anyway. That's such a great message and so important, especially for all of us doing this work and all the work that needs to be done these days. yeah. Well, thank you so much and we will look forward to keeping in touch. Thanks for all you do. Take care.

Lisa (01:36.088)
Yes.

Lisa (01:41.122)
Indeed.

Lisa (01:45.165)
You're welcome.

Lisa (01:50.04)
Let's do, let's do, take care. Bye bye.



Annalouiza (36:00.992)
Anyhow, so interesting and such a needed. I mean, we need support for all types of folk, men and women. Like, let's be clear. But I really appreciate that she's working towards finding spaces, spaces for women who are in this profession. Like, I think that's so valuable.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (36:19.175)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (36:29.073)
Yeah, so cool. Yeah, Jess Wakefield, again, the same kind of really emphasis on how important it is. And it is a wonderful new statistic that we've heard several times now that 75 % of people coming out of the mortuary schools are women. And and the death duel is, as we've also noticed, mostly women. So having women be, I mean, having women being charged in general.

Annalouiza (36:31.325)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (36:42.525)
Mortuary school.

Annalouiza (36:53.375)
Yeah, I heard that this morning the elders talked about the women need to be there.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (36:58.265)
Yeah, yeah, it's so important and so needed right now. the finding the feminine, whatever that is for us is masculine as well, but just finding the energy just in the world. Because there certainly are women who are in charge that are demonstrating masculinity in a toxic way still, you know, which isn't, that's not the answer. It's that.

Annalouiza (37:01.662)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (37:14.931)
touch, yeah.

Annalouiza (37:23.539)
That's right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (37:26.493)
feminine energy, the moon energy, the caring and compassion energy that we all are in such need of right now. yeah.

Annalouiza (37:27.592)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (37:31.759)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yes. So delighted to meet another wonderful human being.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (37:39.793)
Yeah, amen, hallelujah. Okay, good to see you. See you all next time. We have much more excellent programs coming, so definitely tune in. Adios.

Annalouiza (37:47.229)
Yes, join us. Hang out. Adios.