Annalouiza (00:02.252)
Welcome dearest beloveds. Today, Wakil and I are sitting around thinking about ways that we can support you as you enter into these moments of grief. And oftentimes people ask like an actual activity or they don't call it an activity, but people need a thing to do. And so we talked about alter making or rituals and you know, many people

Rev Wakil David Matthews (00:23.971)
You

Annalouiza (00:31.926)
understand what they are conceptually, what does it mean for you to create an altar? So Reverend Wachio.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (00:39.051)
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Reverend Mother Ana Luisa. Yeah, we've been talking about this. hear about it. We talk about it with our friends and we're doing it on the podcast. And both of us really get a lot of pleasure and I guess a lot of inspiration and good, you know, just good resonance from the ability to be able to celebrate.

Annalouiza (00:44.142)
Thank

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:06.217)
or to acknowledge, I think that's a better way to think of it, acknowledging the losses that we have. And so one of the ways to do that is through some kind of a ritual practice or some kind of, and that can be very, very simple. know, we can just simply be sitting in the woods like I was about 10 minutes ago and just, just noticing what's going on around us and really connecting with what's in our hearts. So that can be as simple as that, or there's things we can do to kind of.

acknowledge them. And so, yeah, what are the different kinds of losses that you might make an altar for or create a ritual around?

Annalouiza (01:43.37)
Yeah. So anything, any loss, we can acknowledge it and we can be led to create a little altar space. And oftentimes when I work with someone who has just recently had a loss, I, the first thing I asked them, and I don't actually say this, like, do you have an altar? What I say is, have you, do you have access to a candle and a picture of your loved one? And, and then the next phase is like, you know, you could build a little altar.

to both keep them present and it's a touchstone for you to keep them in your heart right now as you're kind of going through this travailing season. And so altars, I build altars everywhere I go. It's always an acknowledgement of the little things that I find and they don't have to be natural. They don't have to be store bought. They generally just call themselves to be picked up and then I set, make little

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:24.291)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (02:42.37)
like almost spiritual Karen's that I can say, that's what we're, we're being in this moment with these items. And, you know, I think that the word altar always just kind of baffles people or intimidates people. so altar is just a spot that you create as a sacred space. Like it's that right? Like we can build them anywhere.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:44.92)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:51.704)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:07.927)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're setting that intention by saying, this is my spot. And like you said, I love that too whenever just anytime you might be walking down the beach and you see a piece of glass or a bottle or anything, even some garbage, and just create a ritual around, I'm going to clean this garbage up and I'm going to put it all on the spot. And I'm just going to say, thank you for the chance to be of service.

So anything can do that. of course, losses of any kind. Either maybe you lost a job and you want to just sit down with something that represents that job to you and something that, whether you're happy about losing it or not. And just really gratitude. Do you have gratitude for that or do you have gratitude for the fact that you're not happy about it? mean, there's a lot of different ways to, yeah.

Annalouiza (04:01.324)
or the people who have been there too, or learned. I mean, it's just an acknowledgement of this time and this occurrence.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:10.785)
Yeah, yeah, acknowledging your grief or acknowledging your loss. And we go through so many of those and I think we fail to, I think by not doing, and not putting ritual around it, we can sometimes just go right past it and not really gloss over it. And that's, I'd say to our detriment, I think we can, I think it would be much more valuable and helpful to all of us if we kind of took the time. And again, this is a time

Annalouiza (04:25.23)
crossover.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:40.291)
to stop too, just quit letting your mind body just keep go, go, go and ignore, ignore, but actually take a moment to say, I'm gonna stop and really feel this. And by making this ritual space, I can feel it. Yeah.

Annalouiza (04:53.486)
you

And my ritual space, becomes an act that you come back to, like if you light a candle for it, or I have an altar downstairs with little glasses of water and little salt just to like...

remind me that the ancestors are also here present and their journey alongside me. So there are different aspects to what you can put on there. And there's just different ways that you can ritualize an altar and have it be there to support you. And again, like I love the word touchstone because when I go past one, it's like, that intention was about this and there it is. And maybe it's two seconds, but at least I, I pivoted in my stream of

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:16.482)
Hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:26.616)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (05:42.242)
doing and then come back to being and remind myself.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:43.412)
Heh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a great reminder. So we thought we might actually play around and not play around, but create some samples, show you what that looks like for us. So I have a space behind me that usually has my altar on it, and we're going to do some stuff with that. Go ahead.

Annalouiza (05:50.158)
Yep.

Annalouiza (05:54.371)
you.

Annalouiza (05:58.403)
That's right. And also, that it is.

Annalouiza (06:06.702)
So now, and I wanted to also say like, Waukele, I usually have altars, spaces set up at different parts of her house, but I have also encouraged people who are travelers to have like little like matchbox altars, like a stone, a tiny little seashell, and you can open it up and, you know, do kind of your prayers or thinking about the person.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:21.475)
you

Annalouiza (06:30.19)
It's almost like a box of ephemera in some ways, but you really intentional about seeing that. But today I actually went downstairs and decided I want to do like, I want to show you like, this is going to be my altar. It is a tin box, shortbread. It's a shortbread rocks, but this is not outside the realm of my possibilities that this happens, but I'm literally going to set it upside down and that will be my creative space, my altar.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:42.275)
You

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:57.315)
Perfect. Yeah. I want to show you just what you just spoke about. I'll just go over here to my stuff that I got here. When I go traveling, have a group. I wanted to show the things that I bring along that are like what you're talking about. And then I also like to find things in the places where I'm going too. So I'll just take a moment and show you my little collection of miniature goddesses and things. That's one.

Annalouiza (07:24.398)
Hello?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (07:28.259)
And then a couple of Buddhas, just in case I'm feeling in a Buddha space. And a stone, know? A little stone. This is something a dear friend gave me. just, one other thing I will mention about that, and I think it's an important teaching that I got from one of my teachers, is these things that come into our lives as gifts like that stone. There was another one very similar, bigger, came into my life. And at one point I was,

Annalouiza (07:33.58)
tweet.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (07:58.261)
looking at it and sitting there with it on the altar and realized it needed to go somewhere else. And these things are not something that are, I think we need to really be aware that they're not ours to hold on to. They bless us for the time being and then at some point maybe somebody else needs them and you can kind of keep your heart open to that and say, yeah, you're the person that needs this stone right now or this Buddha or whatever. So that's another thing about bringing those along with you as you travel.

Annalouiza (08:02.574)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (08:21.678)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (08:25.346)
That is so beautiful and I love that. also, alters will shift. You might have your little altar spot on your bedside table for a week, a month, or it changes after 24 hours because you're ready to bring in something else. nothing is like a living testament to this time. It does not have to stay stagnant. In fact, many healers would say it shouldn't be stagnant. It needs to be changed.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:29.697)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:34.851)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:44.867)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:52.877)
Yeah. Yeah.

Annalouiza (08:54.92)
You want to start? Should we start talking?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:56.791)
No, you go ahead and I'll just go grab some of my things and you go ahead.

Annalouiza (09:01.228)
Well, I wanted to say I always like to carry scarves or a piece of cloth and I just cover it. And the reason I do this is sometimes if I'm, if it's on a wood table or whatever, I put a candle, a candle might drip on that. So I always think, well, it's okay if I can have to clean it off of this, like this is a silk piece and I don't mind. And I'm not going to have a candle dripping on it on this one, but I always drape it on.

with a little cloth of some sort. And again, I use tablecloths. I can use colored paper. I find anything that just draws my attention and calls me and I use it. So that's the point. Yes, that's fun. I love it.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:42.027)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, even a flat piece of wood or a stone, right? Well, great. Well, you keep going and I'll put my cloth on and I'll talk about it when you're done.

Annalouiza (09:51.779)
Okay. Well, and for today, I've started this new practice that I on my walks, I am very aware of animals that have died or anybody who's died. And so every day I'm actually seeking out the presence of an animal's past and, and try to just go acknowledge it's the loss of that being here on earth with us. And so I wanted to

acknowledge the death of quite a few birds in my area. And so I wanted to start out with a little nest that I've had for a number of years to just represent the geese, the magpie that I saw, and just all our feathered kin who struggle sometimes and die and go back to our mother.

feather here. And I always have a candle. And the candle is so that they can see the light. It can be guided by the light, our heart light or the ephemeral light of the divine. But you know, I thank my fire. It comes from the earth. Thank you for the tree that helped form this match.

the fire that just roils beneath our feet in the deep depths of our earth but with this flame I connect to all flames and all light

Annalouiza (11:39.116)
Light my little candle here.

And oftentimes I just sit and meditate on this, the loss or...

anything that comes up for me in this moment.

Annalouiza (12:09.102)
And I see what Kiel has his candle lit. Beautiful gloss.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:16.865)
So I have a heart and wings cloth, is, as you can probably see, it's a Sufi symbol, which is the practice I spend much of my time on. And then my little candle, didn't have a match, so I found one of my electric candles. Maybe you can't tell. But yeah, that's all it needs to have right now, is as simple as that, right? Of course, I could show you the pile of things that

Annalouiza (12:22.776)
Mississippi.

Annalouiza (12:34.446)
you

Annalouiza (12:42.094)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:46.753)
might also go on there, you know. And I think maybe just because we are talking about our beloveds and those who've gone before, I'll put a picture of my parents on here. Put that back here as just an honoring of them. So I'll put that up closer. first of all, I can just show it to everybody. There's mom and dad wherever they are.

Annalouiza (12:57.71)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (13:08.076)
Bye, Mom and

Annalouiza (13:14.765)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:15.521)
in the spirit. So I'll put that there. And that's, know, again, that could be it. That could be all it needs to be. then there's many, many other things that one could add if one wanted to. So it really depends on your intention. And that's really what this whole thing is about is setting that intention, right?

Annalouiza (13:35.983)
And it's just a simple act that you can do if you are in that acute place of grief. And there might be a lot of phone calling going on. There might be a lot of questions. And if you can just take a moment, and you don't need a candle. You can just put a napkin, a restaurant napkin, and

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:00.963)
Hehe.

Annalouiza (14:04.49)
anything to represent this moment and just keep coming back to it and there's the you you influence its presence and it influences you it's a it's a symbiotic relationship that you being you honor this moment and it also will be helping you as you go through this time

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:05.805)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:25.973)
Yeah. Well, and there's also, we talked a little bit about ceremony, which is kind of another level, but there's also sharing with more people. could have a family come together and have everybody bring something that they wanted to put on the altar to remember whether it was a loss or just someone that they're thinking of right now or whatever, any kind of thing. So how would that look in your family, say?

Annalouiza (14:56.312)
Well, will say for ceremony now, not in my immediate family, what I mean, a ceremony is like a eulogy is, it is the culmination of, of everybody coming together to acknowledge this, new threshold that you have encountered, whether it's the person who dies and goes into the next realm, or it's the family and friends who are still in their corporal.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:56.619)
or have you had your headaches?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:05.826)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (15:25.684)
aspect and they're going to be missing that person. And I just officiated a funeral this weekend and what we did was like there was a lot of conversations and I encouraged them to make an altar but what they ended up doing is like creating a pamphlet for their father which is also a very sacred act like going through photos finding a poem

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:30.616)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:51.447)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (15:54.945)
And thinking about this also is a way to you to funnel your love energy in this moment of grief. And ended up being that so many people spoke at this funeral and the ceremony with flowers and with laughter. was that the ceremony is the final act in terms of, you know, if you're doing ritual towards

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:17.886)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (16:23.232)
a final ceremony around a loss.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:26.271)
Yeah, yeah. Have you ever had an opportunity in a group of people to create an altar, say? And how has that looked? I mean, I remember doing that at our Chaplaincy Institute at one point. Yeah, we had an outdoor space where everybody just brought things. And I've done it also at other camps where we just have a space where people just bring on SDI. think at SDI they had at this, it's the Spiritual Directors International Conference. They had an area where you could actually bring things and

Annalouiza (16:38.028)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (16:42.253)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:55.619)
creating an altar got bigger and bigger and bigger.

Annalouiza (16:59.148)
And I think at Parliament for World Religions, there was the women's altar in the basement, and then there was another altar elsewhere, too, that I remember. I do. I feel like altar making is a lot of what happens as we enter into communal space with people who are there to learn and be together, right?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:03.832)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:21.773)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (17:22.476)
When I was going through herbal training, we would do that before making medicine as a way to honor the plant spirits and the healer I worked with as well. She had her altar that we also came and contributed. And for some folks, it's actually like putting down food and other medicine for the plants or the teacher or the ancestor.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:26.795)
yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:43.181)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:48.738)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (17:49.869)
So there's a collectiveness that does occur in a lot of circles. It just doesn't happen as frequently with mainstream culture in the United States. Although, if you remember, when we went to Bali, there is a very active ritual and ceremony culture there. I was intrigued by the lighting of incense and placing the

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:06.378)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:13.015)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (18:19.266)
the different flowers that belong to each day to honor the ancestors and the days that they're like literally a calendar to remind you of who you're going to be honoring. And it is done family to family, but it's collective because everybody puts it out so that the community sees that you're actually doing it too. So.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:26.68)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:31.661)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:41.837)
Yeah, yeah. Every single structure we went by, whether it was a home or a building or an office or whatever, had its own little altar out in front, or its own little space out front where people every day put something new in there. Yeah, there was a sense in Bali of being, because of that, think, or because of just the sense in general, of just being constantly in connection with the divine, because it's just a part of their culture. And, you know, again,

Annalouiza (18:52.29)
Hmm.

Annalouiza (18:56.237)
Yes.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (19:10.829)
culture tends to zoom on. So this is an opportunity, really a place where we can kind of reconnect to that in a better way and create a space where we remember. Yeah, where we create remembrance.

Annalouiza (19:25.026)
Yeah, and wholeness. I really think that there is an opportunity for us to become whole spiritually, emotionally, physically, as we both integrate and metabolize a loss of death. If we can hold on to life while also acknowledging death and honoring that this is a moment, this is a threshold, this is of great importance in

Rev Wakil David Matthews (19:34.55)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (19:47.949)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (19:52.087)
in this realm of ours, right? And then collectively, we can discuss this too. As you go through the process, talking about it and then coming back to your altar and really digging deep of what is it that is actually changing and moving through me and then going back again and creating more healing. So as you process, that process can be shared with others.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (19:57.707)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, because...

Rev Wakil David Matthews (20:11.703)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (20:18.947)
Yeah, yeah. You mentioned putting a teacher on there. I'm going to go ahead and add an icon to my. He's the person who brought the Sufi practices that I do and that we do over to the United States in the beginning of the 20th century. So I'll just add his picture there, too. So this is I think it's a great way to show how, you know, as you're.

Annalouiza (20:25.118)
No, has to be.

Annalouiza (20:34.232)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (20:46.987)
as your day goes on or as your life goes on and you think, yeah, that belongs on the altar, know. Anything can go there, anything, anytime, yeah.

Annalouiza (20:52.984)
That's Anything. And you know, I sometimes offer fresh cut flowers and I change my stuff. Like you on the days of alter cleaning, it's like everything comes out, new fresh cloth comes in, new candles. but those are my home ones. Like it's it, you know, there are ones that small ones. That's what I'm saying. Like you can have a small one if you've just suffered.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (21:13.997)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (21:20.236)
You're suffering currently with a great feeling of loss. This is a completely appropriate activity without having to go get anything. In fact, you can even need a candle. You just need a little tiny spot where you can have three to five items that can create a connection for you in the memory or feeling of who it is that we're mourning. But it does not require any grand thing.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (21:43.521)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (21:47.787)
Yeah, yeah, there's like no compulsion, right? The other thing is that we kind of, I think is important is the sense of creating sacred space by stopping long enough to say a prayer or to take some breaths even before you begin, you know, just say you are dedicating this space to beauty and to acknowledgement and to presence and to the person or to the thing or to whatever you're wanting to.

Annalouiza (21:51.041)
You

Annalouiza (22:12.483)
Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (22:19.981)
taking the, I turned myself off. So taking the time to acknowledge that and it just sets the intention and it creates that, it does, you you can create sacred space by taking your shoes off, you know, but you know, any, any, that's kind of the idea that I was thinking that we kind of, I think it's important to begin with that. mean, we kind of began with that because that's what we always begin. We always begin with breath. But I think just acknowledging that we are,

Annalouiza (22:22.414)
Thank

Rev Wakil David Matthews (22:50.243)
sacred beings that we are creating specifically, intentionally as a sacred space to honor our feelings, our heart, or whatever. So yeah, and remembrance. yeah, that's, you know, I think that's what altars and ritual would look like. I mean, it could be, you know, talk, maybe talk a little bit more about some of the other things that might happen in a ritual. Can you think like, I don't know, building a fire or a

Annalouiza (23:01.421)
Thank

Annalouiza (23:10.242)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (23:20.416)
even you

Annalouiza (23:20.654)
Yeah, a ritual is, I mean, that's it. Then it becomes a different. Be a lot of things. mean, I just got an email from a teacher in Guatemala who's getting ready for the solstice ceremony. And, you know, he he's very rich. He's a very ritualized human being. And, you know, taking the time to clean the space, not only physically, but energetically.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (23:24.535)
Could be a lot of things.

Annalouiza (23:47.471)
and then spending time like asking the ancestors for, you know, what needs to come in and his candles, which I have some of my candles here to thinking about that. It's a whole new level. And I think that that's it has that requires more of an intentional thought process. It's not just let's just throw some things out and call it a ceremony or a ritual, a ritual you do literally.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (24:15.394)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (24:17.014)
to like honor, but a ceremony is again like the act and the big act requires very strong intentions, I believe.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (24:28.609)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think really all of this, you know, it can be more complex, it can take more time, can take days, weeks even to create something like this or to create the kind of ritual. So there's no, you know, formula that we can say you have to do this, this and this to create a ritual. It's just, you know, it's intention is really...

Annalouiza (24:44.174)
Although it's the intention and I and I see this sometimes in my classes that people say well I have a ritual I do I drink my coffee every day that's it's a ritual it's my question is it a ritual or is it a habit and and so and it's funny because you know most days for me it's a habit it's like feed the cats and then continue coffee and it was interesting because I think just like day or two

Rev Wakil David Matthews (24:56.279)
Yeah.

Thank

Rev Wakil David Matthews (25:07.693)
Mm-hmm

Annalouiza (25:12.386)
I remembered that and I took coffee making to a very slow pace, starting by thinking the water that came out of the faucet, thinking the tea kettle that I filled it with, thinking the flame that came out to warm the water, thinking like the cup that somebody made, thinking coffee beans that somebody grew and tended and cared for, harvested, bagged.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (25:20.835)
Hmm.

Annalouiza (25:42.223)
and sent it off to somebody else who roasted the beans. And then that person obviously sold it to a big company and packaged it and sent it to me. Well, I'm grateful. And I'm still grateful, right? And the coffee beans got ground. The little filter was filled. And as I poured the water, just kept, I just was really led to pray for all the people in the process, specific people in the process of me having my morning coffee, that

Rev Wakil David Matthews (25:50.371)
you

Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (26:05.709)
Hmm. Yeah.

Annalouiza (26:10.956)
becomes a ritual then because if I were to do it on a daily basis, that is honoring this moment and not just mindlessly consuming. Right? So that's what makes it different from habit.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (26:12.44)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (26:22.061)
Yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (26:26.755)
Beautiful. Wow, what a great discernment and a great thing to mention. I really appreciate that. Yeah. And so I've been reading people talking about how we can notice even the tiniest little things that we wouldn't even think, you know, to say thank you for like the door opened. Wow. I live in a nice warm place, you know. I was outside in the cold earlier and I loved that feeling in my face. Just, you know, just all those little things. And so we do have an opportunity.

Annalouiza (26:50.83)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (26:55.107)
to just not take anything for granted if we can be really present and set the intention of noticing. So again, it's a reminder and it's a way to be in that space of presence and acknowledgement and surrender. And so, yeah, and that again takes away, we live, I think in our culture, especially we kind of are habitual people, know, we do what we've always done and get up and do the same thing again.

Annalouiza (27:01.548)
Wait.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (27:22.371)
To stop and do that. I love that you mentioned that I've had that experience doing killva where I'm in silent meditation Which is a silent meditation retreat? About the second day and to kill about for me and I'll be eating and I'll just have that same sense as they pick up the food and I smell it and I look at it and I've suddenly got You know, it's not like just every other day a gobble-gobble, you know, it's like oh my god All of these flavors all of this

the cook, the people who drove the trucks, know, the people who harvested in. Yeah, so, yeah, I love that. I love that sense of really acknowledging everything we have to be grateful for all the time. gratitude is maybe the number one ritual,

Annalouiza (27:53.998)
Hmm?

Annalouiza (28:07.854)
And you know, if you're creating an altar for somebody who's passed, you can also sit there and be in full gratitude for having the opportunity to travel through this time and place with that person. I think that's a really big piece that I love to offer people. It's like you're so lucky to have spent that amount of time with that person learning and being and hugging and like, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Right? Like really, it's so wonderful.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:15.98)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:20.547)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (28:28.216)
Yeah.

you

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've had people put right down, like you talked about earlier, the people making the pamphlet. But I've had people put those things on our altars, write a little note about the person. And it is something I remember that I really appreciated about this person or a story about this person, put it down, and then add that to the altar. Again, as something to remember or to some picture that reminds them of that. So, yeah.

So there's really no end of possibilities and it really does come down to just, you know, feeling your heart, noticing what, what you can, yeah, noticing what resonates for you in your heart and would help with you, would help with your remembrance of gratitude of the person, of the loss of whatever. So, so yeah, what fun. And if you have, you know, any questions or any ideas, we'd love to hear them. And so please get in touch and

Annalouiza (29:06.51)
Yep.

Annalouiza (29:25.87)
That's right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (29:30.231)
Thank you for being here with us again. We love you.

Annalouiza (29:32.332)
Yes, thank you so much. Adios.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (29:35.309)
Adios.