SPEAKER_00 0:00

You know, we've found that many people assume advanced care directives are and power of attorney decisions are things you only deal with when you're older, seriously ill, or even in crisis already. So these conversations often get postponed, avoided, or maybe quietly hoped away. And then what happens is that families find themselves in painful situations. We see this over and over again where loved ones have to make medical decisions without knowing what the person really wanted. So if you've ever thought to yourself, I should probably do this someday, but I don't even know where to start. You're not alone. And we're going to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

So we're going to talk about advanced care directives. And the goal of an advanced care directive isn't preparing for death, it's protecting your agency and choices if you can't speak for yourself. And it helps prepare for death too. But choosing a healthcare power of attorney or an agent isn't about giving up your control by any means. It's about making sure the right person carries your values forward. These decisions aren't only one-time documents either. And so if you've worked on one before, you know, make sure you go back and keep track of it and keep doing it. They evolve as your life evolves. Your relationships change, your health might change, your beliefs might change. So, but when they're approached thoughtfully, end-of-life planning can become less about fear and more about clarity, care, and communications.

SPEAKER_05 1:24

That is right. This will be one part of a series. So be sure to listen to part two next week. By the end of these two episodes, you'll have a clear understanding of how advanced care directives work, how to choose the right person to speak for you, and how to start conversations that your family may struggle with. These tools tools won't solve every emotional challenge around death. This is not that's not the point here, but they can certainly give you language to remove the uncertainty about what's needed and to help ensure what your values are, your relationships with people who are going to be helping you, and it'll show people your wishes that will help guide them when these decisions matter the most. We use a resource called the Five Wishes because it's relatively generic and usable across the country. However, there might be issues depending on where you live. So be sure to consult experts in your area to ensure it's the best possible document for you. We'll include links to these resources in the podcast notes to help you find those experts. Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Stay tuned. Hello, everybody. My name is Reverend Joaquil David Matthews, and we're going to talk about um advanced care directives and kind of what they are and how they look. Kind of a beginning look at them. We'll have other um episodes like this with a little more details. But we wanted to start out today with this one. So welcome.

SPEAKER_05 2:55

Welcome, welcome. And thank you so much for spending a little time in preparing for either your end of life or loved ones or just thinking about it. And yes, indeed, we are going to be talking about advanced care directive plans today. And I'm the reverend mother, reverend to mother Anna Luisa Mendadis. And we are going to be sharing in very broad strokes about the advanced care directive plans, but we're going to get really in-depth into the five wishes today.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yeah, because the five wishes is one version. There are many others, but the five wishes is pretty common. You'll find it everywhere, um, or a lot of places anyway, and it's easy and it's well done. And uh you can get it at fivewishes.org. We'll look at a sample of it in a minute, but let's first just talk about what it actually looks like or what it actually contains. Yeah. So I'm gonna share my screen and we'll uh take a look.

SPEAKER_05 3:52

So I'm also gonna just I just thought about this. If uh if you are sitting in a hospice situation or in a hospital, somebody's been giving a terminal diagnosis, or and uh they or they're still speaking and we're we're able to get some answers, it would be really nice for you to ask for this. Any nurses station, any chaplain at the hospital, any assisted living space would probably have a five wishes booklet for you. And it's it's a really lovely small document that you can just like flip through. But today we're gonna share it with you so that you can have some quite have your questions answered, probably.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yeah, yeah. And think about beginning. Um, the the only way to start is to start. So so um yeah, we've we've had questions come up about a living will as opposed to um this this document or this type of document. Now, living will do is similar in a way that it does give directions as to what you want to have happen to you when you're no longer able to make your own decisions. But the five wishes includes a lot of other things as well, some things like the healthcare agent, the power of attorney. So if you have a living will, you still need to have a power of attorney or a healthcare power of attorney. Um power of attorney can be a healthcare power of attorney, it can be a financial power of attorney, you can do specific powers of attorney for specific things. But um, in this case, we're talking about healthcare. So health.

SPEAKER_05 5:17

Right. So so when would you really, really want this and who needs it, right? So in this moment in our medical industry, sometimes we get whisked into situations where we are in the hospital. You can speak for yourself. You can say, Yes, I would like this service done. No, I don't need that. But imagine a moment when you are not able to speak for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:42

And what generally happens in hospitals in these situations is they will find five hospitalists, five different people, and they will just kind of band together and say, Hey, this is a situation with this patient. What should we do? Right. Because we don't know them. Nobody, they there's nothing, there's nobody coming through to tell help us out. And they have what is called the Good Samaritan Act, which says, we will just decide like the the most uh life-saving practices will be in this moment given to this person.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

You may or may not want this, but that's where if you have the five wishes, an advanced care directive plan or a a uh health power of attorney, you will have your wishes known.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah. And and of course they need a copy of that. And your people the other thing that'll happen sometimes is that they'll turn to your family members or whoever shows up and ask them, you know, and they may or may not be uh have the same thoughts that you have about it. So that's again where we we this is an exercise not only to get this written down, but in uh really the important part of this is to make sure your loved ones know about it and have a copy of it and have agreed that they're going to um support you and what you've asked for. So that's another whole part of this. So so yeah, the things that you see here um are covered, the power of attorney, a healthcare agent. Like I said, those can be similar. And of course, all your treatment choices that you want. And then the the other wishes are about comfort and how you want people to treat you and uh what you want them to know. So a lot of these things are just uh the the first parts are really this healthcare agent, and we'll talk about that in a little more depth in a moment here.

SPEAKER_05 7:24

And it's kind of really overwhelming if if, especially if you're in a moment of stress to think about power of attorney, healthcare agent. It's in our legal system of our of our world, it really is intimidating.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yeah, can be.

SPEAKER_05 7:38

I just I just want you to know that a healthcare agent is someone who will speak for you if you can't speak for yourself. Yeah. That's all you need to know. That's like somebody who you give the car keys to, your verbal car keys.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So let's let's actually look at the slide for that, or look at the uh a sample of that. Um, and then we can talk more about what a healthcare agent looks like or what what that person is, who that person should be. And the the point of that again is to really start thinking about for yourself who do you trust? Who is somebody that you think you could count on to um show up for you and do it and and you know, do what you've asked. And and the way that's gonna work is if you talk to them.

SPEAKER_04 8:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Um if they're aware. So that's the first part is to think about who this is and then uh make sure they know about it.

SPEAKER_05 8:31

So um so I was gonna say, so you're gonna get this little booklet. It's generally blue, and it's just a very simple book, not a heavy big thing, but you this you open it up, and this is what the first wish is was going to have you consider.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Yeah. And so, yeah, there's some really good information. But the nice thing about this is really well thought out and it's been adapted over time, so it gets better. Um, we're looking at a sample here, as you can see, with a P-L-E at the end there. Um you can get uh on fivewishes.org, you can either get an online version, uh, which you can just fill out online and keep online, or you can get a hard copy. And the hard copy is actually less expensive, and I would recommend a hard copy. Um one reason for that is it gives you an opportunity to kind of look through it uh and think about it and work with your family or your loved ones. Yeah, scribble, yeah. Um do it in pencil, right? Um and the other thing is that you can then later scan it. And and I always, whenever we're doing classes on up, you know, on preparing for end of life, um, we talk about keeping records both in hard copy and online, so that you have both. So you can have this hard copy, put it in your file for people to know where to find it, and then also um give your doctors a copy, etc. But uh then have an online version and let people know where to find those as well.

SPEAKER_05 9:53

Right. And I will just do a personal lived experience around this. So with when my sister was in the hospital numerous times with very clearly uh difficult uh situations, we would always take the time to update this. Like we would just go to the nurse's station, I would grab a new one, and I had I usually carried her previous one, and I would say, is this still the same? Yeah and you know, she would say yes or no, and or we'd fill it out a little bit more deeply, you know, based on what she was feeling at the time. But I want you to know this is like a living uh document. So if you sign this today, you could change your mind tomorrow. And you know, it's okay. And but it just gives people an opportunity to think about how you want to be cared for in the at the end of life.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah, yeah. And it does at the very end of the document say um how you can change it. It is a legal document, so it's signed. So if you do make a new one, you need to destroy the old one and do all go through this process. But it talks about that at the end and talks about what you need, how you need it signed. It depends on where you are. Um, different jurisdictions have different rules around which uh how many signatures you need, whether you need witnesses, that kind of thing. So the website gives you all that information.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

So that's right.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

So let's talk about who you might choose as a health care attorney.

SPEAKER_05 11:15

How do you yes? How do you choose someone? Okay, so Waquil, just as an experiment, do you know who you how you would choose your power of attorney?

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah, and it's changed over time. So when we first filled this out many years ago, um my wife and I chose her brother uh because he was nearby, he lived nearby, and um and he hadn't gone crazy yet. In the meantime, he did go crazy and and uh well, not literally, but in his his views on life changed radically from ours. And so um we've changed it, and we changed it a couple of times now. We've changed it to closer friends. Um more recently, we've changed it again because we realize as we're getting older that our elder friends may or may not be here, and so we picked somebody younger than ourselves. I think that's an important thing to think about as you're getting older. So, and and and again, the important piece is somebody who I know and I trust will in that moment of loss and grief, if you know if somebody's dying or died, um, be able to, you know, be you know, be your agent, take do what you've asked them to do. And you need to, and that's somebody you need to talk to about it. So it's really so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:33

So you really need somebody who will follow through with your wishes.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:37

Like I uh I my former husband, he was always like, I will never pay attention to your stuff because I will want to keep going. Go, go, go, go. We will never, you know, lose to death. So, you know, he was never on my list of health agents.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

Right.

SPEAKER_05 12:55

And I do I have a friend who is much younger than me. She was my health agent for a while. But it, you know, not necessarily that people go crazy, but people's bandwidth for taking care of somebody else in very serious situations may change.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:09

And you can always also ask your, you know, whomever, your friend or family who you you decide, is this something that you would be willing to do? Is it, you know, and at any point if you feel like your personal life is just a little too overwhelming, just reach out and let me know and I can find somebody else. Because it will be some it needs to be somebody who is going to hold strong because other voices may come at them and say, No, but we should try to do this and we should try to do that. And they're like, No, but we they don't really want those other things.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 13:41

So, yeah, so one good way is like a good friend, maybe a younger friend, or even a family member who is really aligned with your core belief systems.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Yeah, yeah. And and you know there you trust that they will be able to um handle it and be able to do what you've asked. Uh, and and I have a story about this too, and this is important to know, and that is that um in one case a friend of mine had had this all written up and had made it very clear, or their mother had made it very clear what they wanted. Um, but when it came time um for that to be acted on, they um they they didn't want to do it, you know. She was no longer able to make decisions, and they chose for her, despite her wishes, um, to keep her alive. And she was in pain for a month, basically, because they didn't choose to follow her wishes. So it's really important to think about who you can trust or who who do you hope to be able to trust to do this um and and really follow through with it, even though there's going there may very well be family members, um, other people, friends, or whatever saying you can't do that to them. You've got to keep them alive or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 14:53

That's right. That's right. Yeah, and and that said, you know, even when you choose somebody, I would encourage like lots of little conversations sporadically through time, so that you the benefit of talking about it is it empowers that person to actually say without hesitation, no, I actually think they really want this.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:15

Because if you know, if there's any little bit of uncertainty, it it's also detrimental to the person you've asked to fill in for you if you're not able to speak for yourself. So truly it is, you know, it's a special relationship that you will hold with one, probably two people, because in case one person doesn't isn't able to get there fast or isn't able to like check in, the second person in line will actually be the one. Also, you can have somebody call in, just so you know, it's you know, hospitals will listen to somebody over the phone. I think they used to do that anyways.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yeah, yeah. As long as you're listed, as long as they have a copy. Um, this they this particular form actually gives you three places so you can have a backup and a backup. Um, and so you can you know pick three different people that will be the ones to do this. And again, you know, it's important to um uh you know have this conversation not only with these people but with everybody else and make sure they know this is the person I've chosen. I've given them this this job and this work and they've offered to do it or they've agreed to do it. So you need to pay attention to that when it comes time. That's right. They really do they know what I want. And um, and so that that's it's a really important choice to make. And again, like we said, you know, it can be changed and it should be. You should be checking on this on a regular basis because people change. Or you might find somebody that the other thing it notice notes here is that um there are things that uh people you shouldn't choose. Um, like for instance, your your doctor, your medical professionals shouldn't probably should never be chosen. Somebody who's already doing it for 10 or 20 people, you know, um doesn't have the bandwidth, as you mentioned earlier. So you really want to make sure you talk about this carefully and make sure the person is somebody who can deal with it.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

So yeah, and and you know, I I wouldn't pick somebody I haven't spoken to in 20 years, right? Or uh, you know, a family member who you may have a close relationship, but you also understand that they're really they're at their wits' end with a lot of personal stuff. So maybe don't put this on their shoulders unless you have a conversation with them first. And, you know, we did talk about fiduciaries, right? Like this is somebody like there are there are paid people you could find if you have no one that you would trust to do this.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Yeah, and and we're also now right now working on a possibility of a nonprofit that would help people who don't have finances or don't have um the money they would need or or people in their lives that they could trust to try to help that too. So we're hoping to have some place, some some model in place soon, kind of a mutual aid model in place and and hopefully spread that idea out a bit so that if you are in that position where you just don't know anybody, you don't have family members, you don't live near anybody, whatever, or your all your friends are as old as you are, um that there would be some choices in that. So we again this is important and we really we we we take this very seriously, and so we're really trying to find ways to help.

SPEAKER_05 18:12

So well, and again, I just want to make sure people understand this is free, this is a free service. The the financial pieces are not around uh the five wishes. It is, you know, what we're just trying to support is you having this person they don't have to pay, you don't have to pay, and it's just somebody who can speak on your behalf if you're unable to.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and the five wishes does have a small cost when you get it online. So um, but it's it's not very expensive.

SPEAKER_05 18:38

That's yes, that's it's like three, four, I think it's not that much.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

It's gone up a little bit, but yeah, it's it's actually more expensive to have the online version, oddly. I would have thought of the other way around. But um, but you can just order the, I think it's five bucks, something, and you can order it online and it'll be sent to you in in the mail. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Yay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

So that's the first wish, and it's kind of the it's prioritized, one, two, three, four, five, right? And so let's just briefly talk about some of the other ones, and and in another episode, we'll talk more deeply about some of those. Um, but you know, some of the other things that um it talks about are your treatment choices. So specifically, what do you want to have? Uh and this can get very detailed, as you were talking about with your sister, you know. Um you can think of all sorts of different things, and there are actually lists online of in this case, do this, in this case do that, you know.

SPEAKER_05 19:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:29

And and this is a very simple format for you. Like there's some really hard stops, like one or two, three things that you absolutely know. Uh, when I do advanced care directive planning, I spend a lot of time just like going through these different scenarios because the more information you can give somebody, the easier it is, it will be to navigate that decision.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:48

And again, it's, you know, uh, this is just one way to make a very simple advanced care plan in case you're not able to speak for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Yeah. So in the case of your choices, your medical choices, you can tell them what you think, um, what does life support mean as you far as you're concerned? And you can say, you know, in case of emergency, do not resuscitate. That's another one, DNR, they call it. Um but I'll show you here, let me share another page of this because I think this is a good example of what this document does. So in the document, it has choices that you can choose. You can cross out things that you don't want to choose to do. So, as you can see with this part of the document, um, it's got um if you are close to death, uh you know, if you have severe brain damage, it's got a lot of different choices here and different conditions under which you might want to be kept alive or not. And then the nice thing is that it's got choices that you can pick from. So you know, if you that's right, if you uh and you can cross out ones, and there's always space at the bottom where you can choose, you can write other things in. And as we said, there can be a lot of different situations that you might want to uh document.

SPEAKER_05 21:08

So and also based on on, let's say, for instance, you have a terminal illness and you're gonna be working with uh five wishes, there are things that you'll know from your medical team of things that might be coming down the road for you. And you could decide that some of those things, you know, you you want to talk about it a little bit more and figure out how to get through them. So, yes, and in some cases, there's nothing it's imminent, and you just say, I would like life support if I'm in a bind.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Yeah, right. Yeah. And there's a document that we'll talk more about another time called a Pulst, a physician's orders for life saving treatment. Um, that's why, you know, they ask you what do you consider life saving treatment? Um, and we can talk more about that another time, but it's a document that you actually, if you are uh if you have a terminal diagnosis, uh Or, you know, if you if you're likely to need an emergency help with it from an EMT that you can have posted in a uh obvious phrase. Yeah. For people for the D EMTs when they show up to know that um this is what you want and the physicians have signed it. So um that's and and if you and there's different things that happen depending on whether you have that or not. So we'll talk more about that in another episode. Um yeah, what else do they talk about? They also talk about comfort, you know. How comfortable do you want to be? And and what do you want people just to talk about when they're around you, or how do you want to be treated? So those are the last wishes, or more like practical. What do you want to have happen? So yeah, what kind of things do you think of when you think of comfort care?

SPEAKER_05 22:45

Yeah, and sometimes people don't understand that concept because many of us have not been in that situation or seen others in that situation. But when my sister and I worked through this, she was very adamant that she wanted to make sure her mouth was kept moisturized because when you're in the hospital with uh tubes in your nose and lots of uh you know machines around you, the air is very dry. Yeah, she was like, please swab my mouth frequently. I want lotion on my face and face cream and uh just to make me not feel so uncomfortable because she did she had episodes where she came out of you know this near-death experience and she was just like, I feel so horrible, but it's just like my skin is dry and my mouth is really parched. So those are pieces of comfort that you could you could say you would like. Yeah, and that way it would re it would remind your loved ones or whomever are you know going to be serving as your proxy, this is what she would really like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Yeah. And so thinking about those ahead of time is just such a great thing to do. And uh um, and then you know, how do you want people to treat you? Do you want people to uh and and who? I mean, this doesn't really say this, but who do you want to have in the room? That's right.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

That is a really big one, I think.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Yeah, yeah. And especially now in this world of, you know, you may have people you don't really care to have in the room with you, um, or people that don't um agree with your choices about your lifestyle and uh those kind of things that you may just not want to have there.

SPEAKER_05 24:21

Uh that's right. I was gonna also say, so um going just really quick back through the comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:27

If you want your, you know, your grandma's quilt with you, put that in there because that could be brought in for you by someone. And then the other piece that I just came across with um somebody I worked with, uh, she was pretty adamant that any health um experiences that she was going through were not to be posted on any social media. And that was a really hard one for her husband because he knew that in their community there was somebody who posts a lot and wants to share and assumes that this person wants to be all over, you know, having people, more people know about this. And it was really interesting. And it was a conversation that he and I had to have because I said, you know, as soon as you send out a text, it needs to begin with. This is private, this is for our family and our close community. You are not to share this. Yeah. Not to say that somebody won't get, you know, frosty Facebook fingers and decide they're gonna go for it, but but this would be a good place. Not only who do you want in your room with you and not want in your room, who do you not want to know about this at the world at large? Because right now everybody wants to be the bearer of some news to be the keeper of it. So be very clear about that.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Yeah, this is a great place to put that down, exactly. And and there are choices of ways, a carrying bridge, for instance, things like that, where you can choose to um have like one place. And the for in in our and in one case, you know, the very first thing on the carrying bridge is we would rather not have any advice. You know, we have a really good medical team. Yeah, please don't tell us about your um, you know, cat's liver or whatever that you think is gonna help us, you know, and that's that's another thing to say when you know we want people to treat you with respect, you want them to treat your medical folks with respect. Um and um and and then, you know, would you like to have music? Would you like to have people praying with you, holding your hand, um yeah, giving you baths, all these kind of things. There's this is a place to really think about how would it how would you be most comfortable um toward the end of your life. So it's a great place to do that.

SPEAKER_05 26:41

And I will say there's some people who will, because of modesty, will not want others to be doing this, but you can name a person if you have a conversation with them. And it could also just mean like, you know, washing my hands with a warm towel. Like that is that is a very lovely thing that I personally like to do when I visit people in the hospitals because it generally people I I I've walked into so many hospital rooms where people are like unkempt and you know, I haven't got my teeth brushed in three days because people are too busy. And and really truly feel into what you would appreciate as others are coming in and seeing you. You know, I would like to I would like to be cared for as though I'm still very present. Keep me modest, you know, but but still please take care of my body.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yeah, comb my hair, you know. Comb my hair, yeah. Yeah, massages. I mean, um, foot massage, hand massage, things like that that are just gonna be gonna make you feel better, or somebody coming in to sing songs for you, you know. All these things you can start to write down. This is a great place to put it down and to talk to your beloveds about. This is really what I want. So and then the last thing on here is really what you want them to know. And um there are varieties of this. We've talked, we've had people on our podcast come and talk about what they can two envelopes, right? Um, and uh, we've had other things, legacy letters or things like that. Just love letters, love letters to your friends and your loved ones. And you can put this in here, you can have separate things. Um, all of this, you know, they they have space in this particular document for you to fill this out. But in many cases, you may very want to have maybe very well want to have envelopes for everybody, all of your friends, all of your loved ones, all of your kids, or your parents, or whoever, you know.

SPEAKER_05 28:27

And this is this is starting to sound like a lot of work. And you don't have to do all these things. The the the most important piece about five wishes is to have somebody who can speak for you if you're unable to speak. All these other pieces, well, you know, the the your care is something that is very personal to you. Yeah. And if you're loved, if you just speak this out to people, this would be very, very good. But I don't want people to feel like I can't even do this because I have to I yes, because I have too many things to think about. Just find the one person you can gently, you know, consider a cup of tea and a little conversation, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Yeah, yeah. And and in all of the, you know, in the classes that I teach about preparing, you know, it's two hours worth of, oh my God, there's so many things. And and really what, yeah, we emphasize that over and over again. Be kind to yourself, be gentle with yourself. Take the time to simply, you know, just spend a little bit of time once a week or something, you know, and just put it on your calendar, even. Um, and just spend a little bit of time beginning and just begin baby steps. And this can also help with these conversations that are hard sometimes. Um, with your with your loved ones, just start having this conversation in in small pieces. Just, you know, let's talk today. Let's talk today about, you know, what and and you said something earlier, and we'll have another episode, I think, about this, but um, just you know, talk about what you've experienced and with other people because that's a really good door doorway into this conversation. So I hope this has been useful for everybody, and um and you know, we'd love to hear your questions and thoughts. So uh please respond, please comment, please share, please subscribe. And uh and uh we look forward to sharing more information with you in the future.

SPEAKER_05 30:16

That's right. Be well. You got this.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

You got it. Adios.

SPEAKER_05 30:22

Adios.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Thank you for joining us today. Thank you to Charles Heastan, the composer of the original music you are listening to now.

SPEAKER_05 30:38

And of course, thanks to you, our audience, and all of our amazing guests. Please come back next week for another great episode. Share this with your friends, family, and community. We hope you will subscribe and follow us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, and TubTech. Each guest additional information will be found in the podcast notes. And of course, if you have a good end of life story to share, please reach out. We're always eager to hear from you.