SPEAKER_00 0:01

Uh hello and welcome everybody back to End of Life Conversations, where we talk about all things life and death and in between. And today myself, Ana Luisa Hermendares, along with my my good fellas, are going to be discussing what is life? Are we living?

SPEAKER_03 0:23

Yeah. That's important. We talk about death all the time. So yeah, we just had a guest on this morning and we were talking to her about well, what about life? What are you how well are you taking care of living your life? So we'll talk about that. So and I'm uh Reverend Waquil David Matthews, and welcome everybody. Good to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

And I'm Sam Lee Zemke. And today I'm uh editor and uh silly sloth. I'm a silly silly sloth today. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Well, silly sloth.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

That's probably how you would show up on Google right now, right? That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Well, and I love silly sloth because it means that we are playful and loving with each other and in this slowing down in this very accelerated age where we are constantly tethered to information, to and I want to say phones. I mean, I think most people have phones that they're always checking in on with random things. And this morning's conversation with one of our epis in our episode with uh end of life conversations, we chatted with Ashley, who really gave me a new perspective. I really am grateful for that conversation. I love to ask people about how they're gonna die, have they planned for death, you know, like tell me all your like death ideas. And it it really puts some people off. It's very stressful to think about dying. And she mentioned why people are stressed, they don't want to live a life without their loved one here, or um, that is a real conflict. Like we know we're gonna die, and then there's this already loss that happens before people actually pass away. But she likes to start conversations is how are you living? And I really want to address this today because death is it's a book, it's a chapter end. You've got birth and death, and in between that dash, yeah, we have life. So how are we living? How are we remembering others, our favorite books, our favorite moonrises? I mean, that is part of living. And I thought let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Yeah. Yeah. So I there's a, you know, there's that, there's also part of that is recognizing the the loss and grief that goes on when we can't get the things done we want to get done, right? Or when we when we notice that, wow, I've been wanting to read that book for six months. It's still sitting on the shelf.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Yes. I think that's the that's a really interesting piece about being attentive to the end of life. I mean, I think in the last year I've maybe accelerated my ideas of dying. Um, I don't know why, but it's been very important for me to like clean my drawers and you know, update my all my paperwork. And is that really like I I don't want to forget that I still have this life that I'm here. I don't, I don't know when I'm going and I'm fussing over dying right now so much that you know I haven't gone out camping this winter. So I'm like, what? What's going on? So it it behooves us to recognize the losses, the little losses that we end up accruing day after day. Um I find myself thinking about that so often, like the people that I haven't seen, if I walk at a different time or the birds, you know, I do have this sense of loss and and grief. And then I keep going because I got to do the next thing. Trash bins have to get taken out, dogs have to get walked. And it just has me reckoning right now with what am I doing in this life in this moment? And yes, I am, I am, I'm excited to transition out of this world because I'm very curious about the next one. And I have to start being present here again, again and again. All right, silly sloth, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

I think that is such a noble struggle to stay, to stay present. And the world is really hard to stay present with right now. It's really, really, really hard to stay present with. And I've been I've been in a a similar challenge place around um noticing where I'm not engaging in my life in the way that I want to. I'm I'm doing cool stuff, I'm you know, I'm keeping going, but inside the the presence, the the joy, motivation, the like desire to engage with life feels so far away most of the time. And it took like a a pretty big intentional undertaking to really take a day and just be like, I'm gonna take the whole day to just tap in.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

And tap out to tap in. Tune in, tune in uh check-in dropout, what was it?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Yeah, it was it Romdas? No, it was Times. It was Romdas, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

And it might be Leary. I think it was Timothy Leary. I think it was Timothy Leary, yeah. They're all the same. Was very close to me in that day. Very, very close. I spent a lot of time with those guys in particular.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

And the the juggling of an existence of contrasts, also holding sort of like non-dualism of like, you know, yeah, I can tell this story, this story, this story, and the opposite is true, but I don't necessarily have to go down the opposite path. I don't have to, you know, uh I think in in a like shadow work, grief work world, kind of like what you're talking about, Ana Luisa, is like we spend so much time with death. I spend so much time with grief, so much time with the suffering of the world that I can lose my connection with the life side, with the joy side. Yeah. And so in this day, I was really uh blessed to to be able to tap into like, oh, I can end this thought process with a smile on my face and laughing at the absurdity of like the horrors and the beauty existing at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. And I can say, today, like my work is to help normalize sitting with the crunchy, griefy, shadowy sides. But that's not always the medicine that I need.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Sometimes the medicine that I need is to step out of that place.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

And go sit in the sun.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

And be silly and dance and whistle. And yeah, I totally hear you, Sam. I it is constant paradox. And it's threading that needle, like that fine edge between the two, so you can dance between both sides and not get swept into one or the other. Because, you know, when I'm like doing a lot of things and I'm really busy and I'm like, I'm producing, and then it's like, you know, it's it's not that doesn't actually fulfill either. I want to like sit in the compost and the earth and the death and I don't know, the putrid sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Yeah, yeah. I think it's it's it's a cultural thing for us, you know. It's like the the uh value is attached to production, right? Value is attached to creating money, something you know, to to producing money. And it, I mean, we have the the indexes are all about, you know, how much product product can we create? How much can we create more product today than we did yesterday? And uh can we continue to do that indefinitely? And turns out we can't. And so um for those of us, and and you know, we were talking about this a little bit earlier about that not everybody is wrapped up in that so deeply, or not everybody's so um uh uh connected to it or tied to that way of being. But for those of us who choose to try not to be, it's uh it's still a part of our lives, it's still a part of our our DNA. And and so it's it's it takes a conscious effort. It takes really a um in setting that intention and then following through with that intention to I'm gonna have half-hour free time a whole lot, or maybe a whole day, you know. I'm gonna take uh I'm gonna take a day, I'm gonna have a Sabbath, you know. It's a Sabbath is what it's Shabbat, you know. To just say, I have nothing to do today except be in silence, maybe sit sit by a tree, maybe take a walk, maybe talk to somebody, maybe teach somebody how to knit. I love that one that she talked about.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

To give, you know, teach somebody something. Any of those things. But just be present and be connected to life. Yeah. It's hard. Precious life.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

It's so hard. I have to, you know, as a mom, as a single mom, I have I I keep my calendar. And it used to be that I'd keep my Wednesdays for hiking. And inevitably, somebody has a doctor's appointment, the car needs to go in, like, and it's the only day you're offered. Right. And there goes like, you know, four-hour chunk of my Wednesday, and then I'm like, you know, I give up. And I really am I'm I'm bitter that the capitalist grind, the stuff grind usurps living. And, you know, uh my daughter really wants me to go see a doctor about some my physical stuff is going on. And it's like it'll be four hours, right? It'll be like an hour drive sitting in there. Okay. And I was like, that is not a value that I hold anymore. Like, I kind of really need to figure this out some other way because on the road, you got to get your car there. You got, you know, like I don't want to be doing those things as much anymore. I really feel like I need, I need those times by the tree.

unknown 11:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

And I don't want to be bothered. I mean, you know, I have two walks per day with my dog. And I love my morning walk because it's very quiet. 30 minutes to have 45 minutes, you know, walking in alleys. It's like my favorite. I don't see people, and it is such a joyful time for me. I need more of those.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

I need more. And that'll be life. That's that's the life I'm I'm I'm wanting to remind myself is is essential for me to end up at whatever, like in five minutes or 50 years, whatever you know, Ashley said this morning. Um I will have like really flourished as a spirit in a carcass, right? Like in my meat packet. Yeah. My meat packet will have taken this soul to experience, you know, the beloved's gaze on this world. It's like, I want that so desperately. Yeah, you know? And I'm still like in love with death.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Like I think that's a really important piece you you speak to, and as as we're talking about this, it's that that uh the contrasting piece of of the of the grind. And and it's not just the cultural impetus to grind, it's also that we are in a time where uh not to get too risque in our uh politicking or anything, but the the the reality of how much harder it is just to materially exist right now.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah. And how how much of a luxury it is to slow down, to take a half an hour during your day. If you're working 68 hours a week, if you're working three jobs just to make your rent and just to put food on the table, and still going into debt and all of these things, like how? Yeah. How do you even find like it's all well and good to say, yeah, take the time and slow down and pump the brakes and be the parachute and you know, and and and try to, you know, fall back on on careening towards the the cliff. Everything is designed to keep us engaged in that stream of more active, do, and and to see none of the reward even of that, which would be, you know, I work really hard and so I can take a vacation, or I get my weekends off, or things like that. And I don't that's maybe just negative Nancying.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

But it's just it's a hard, it's a hard piece in the in the world right here. Yeah, no, it's a reality.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

I feel very it's a reality.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

I feel very lucky that I can take a day. Yeah. You know, what a privilege to be able to take a day and say, I'm so disconnected, I need to get in touch. Partially because the work that I do is contingent on me doing that. Right. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

I think it's important for it's not negative, Nancy. It's again living in the paradox of what we're doing right now. And not everyone will have that luxury.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

And like I told we when Joaquil asked Ashley, like, you know, like there are people who won't have access to dropping out and driving across country and hanging out and doing these really fun things. And it occurred to me, it's like this is where we do better by showing up for others when we can, right? Yeah, showing up for others means like people who are grinding in these jobs that are super soulfully difficult and being kind, right? Showing up, teaching somebody, showing up, gifting somebody, um watering trees that need watering in some random place. Like um my kid, I have to tell you a story. My kids got really mad at me the other day, as usual. But there's a there's a a lot between an apartment building and another apartment set setting where a lot of these very young people end up congregating and they play bocce, they have little cookouts, and I always see them and talk to them, and it's kind of a very social little place. But in the last six months, somebody's had a dog that's just been pooping in there. And so every time I see somebody, I'm like, hey, like, what's up with the poop? Like, whose dog? And all of them are like, I don't know, but it's gross and like it's everywhere. And I'm like, I know. So my kids are like, well, why don't you go clean it up? And I'm like, it's not my dog. I don't think it's my responsibility. Um and in in you know, this conversation today, it's like, I should have just gone to go pick up that poop. If I resent it because I'm like, it's not my responsibility. Yeah, but it is such a sweet space for so many young people to hang out. This, you know, they come out and smoke cigarettes. Um, they they bought a blow-up pool last summer, and we all just kind of like, I mean, these are like 20, 30 year olds, right? And I'm like, yeah. And so I'm the old lady who always shows up and hangs out with them too. So why didn't I go clean up the poop? Because that is that is a place where people needed to have clean so that they can congregate, right? Yeah. It's I think it's those little things that I need to like be aware of that could contribute to somebody else's ease.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Yeah. You know, there's that awareness of caring for each other and and finding ways every day we can do that. So that's wonderful. But there's also, I think it's also important to um be compassionate with yourself. And um, you know, and because we're not gonna we're not gonna do these things, we're not gonna be able to do all the things we want to do. All these things we're talking about are hard and and it's it's another trap, I think, to fall into. Oh, I should have, I should have, I should have. And and you know, not like my teacher used to say, don't shoot all over yourself. Um so so trying not to do that. And and that's just about compassion for your own work. You know, I did as I did the best I can, and that teaches it's also a lesson, you know. Okay, so maybe now I know the next time I see poop on the ground, I'm gonna clean it up. You know, I'm gonna bring my little poop dog thing, even though I don't have a dog. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

No, I know. And I guess this is this is how we live, right? This is how we serve, this is how we contribute to contribute to others.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

And how we learn, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Getting a chance to really enjoy something.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Those are the those are the baby steps that we can take uh towards a more easeful world for everyone. For everyone. That's everyone. If we can share our whatever luxuries, whatever privileges we have of space and time, if we have it to share that to increase, spread it around. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

And then's the responsibility that we um we get when we get privilege, you know, that comes with it, right? Go ahead, Sam. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Oh, just and that on uh to n to also not get caught in the trap of just individual level things.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Because then I think about it a lot again with like economic inequality that you know, the time and time again we see that those with less are much more generous with the little that they have. True. Yeah. But that can all that can lead to sharing less and less with each other. We're spreading it around more because we are compassionate and we have empathy, but and we know what lack is like, we know what scarcity is like in our own selves, and so we don't want other people to to experience that in the same way. But that can leave us all diminished. And so there is the systemic work of how do we, I'm just gonna say it in these terms, claw back the time for ourselves and for each other on a larger scale. And and you know, again, baby steps and doing a community cleanup can be a good way to do that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah. Or mutual aid, which is what I like. I like to cook for folks on Sundays. Uh but that I love that because that is in service to our brothers and sisters. And it gives my life like the grind is not just for me, it's for our all those, you know, around me.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

So Yeah. And that mutual aid model can extend so much so nicely to so many different things. I was just talking to somebody this weekend about the idea of mutual aid for helping people who don't have anybody to be their healthcare agent, right? And to gather a group of elders together or just community together and say, let's help each other out. Let's be there for each other, let's get to know each other and trust each other enough that we could be each other's healthcare agents, or we could help each other with going to the doctor or whatever, you know. But it's just gathering it basically what mutual aid ends up being, in no matter what the the goal is, is finding a community of people willing to be in in connection with each other and be present with each other and say, What do you need today and how can I be of service to you? And that can be a spiritual community, but it can also also just be your neighbors, you know. Um, so or or both, you know. And I think just being having that again, having that intention and setting that intention and working toward that in everything we do is one way to live this life to the fullest, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:22

I agree. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

So I'm gonna put a plug-in for doing more moonrise watching because life is short. You never know how many times you're gonna get a chance to go smell the roses or sit on the back porch and just sit and do nothing. But uh, when I was in my 20s, I read The Sheltering Sky, and this quote just struck me that I had to keep the book and I've often thought about it. But um, Paul Bowles, who wrote The Sheltering Sky, says How many more times? Will you remember a certain afternoon of your childhood? Some afternoon that's so deeply a part of your being that you can't even conceive of your life without it. Perhaps four or five times more. Perhaps not even that. How many more times will you watch the full moon rise? Perhaps twenty, and yet it all seems limitless. So go out and live. Go out and live.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Yeah, turns out it's not limitless. It's not limitless. Yeah. So yeah, that's a good maybe um suggestion or something to offer our audience. You know, think of something in your life that is just something you love more than anything else. And and how many times are you gonna get to do it? And just find find ways to to get there. And find maybe that's helping others, serving others, maybe that's cooking a meal, maybe it's teaching somebody a recipe. Um, there's so many ways that we get and give love and compassion and and and life to each other. So listen to your favorite songs more.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Yeah, and dance.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

And dance.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Yeah, dance, yeah. No matter what. Everybody can dance, everybody can sing no matter what your teachers told you. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Well, that's husband.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Especially, especially what they told you.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Yes, I say uh sit in a corner and be sweet on your body, no matter what it can or can't you think can't do, but look at your hands, how much they do for you.

SPEAKER_03 23:41

And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Just be sweet on yourself.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Well, I appreciate you both very much. And um, so let's say our goodbyes, I think, unless you all have one more thought. Nope. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

That's it. And write us if you hit listen to this and think of other things that we could do to support one another in our living.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Yeah, in our life. Yeah. So please um tell all your friends, uh, subscribe, uh, like, do all that stuff that helps us, and um, we'll see you again next time. Much love.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Uh adios. Adios. Adios, time grief and last conversations at the end of life.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Thank you for joining us today. Thank you to Charles Heastan, the composer of the original music you are listening to now.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

And of course, thanks to you, our audience, and all of our amazing guests. Please come back next week for another great episode. Share this with your friends, family, and community. We hope you will subscribe and follow us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, and Substack. Each guest's additional information will be found in the podcast notes. And of course, if you have a good end of life story to share, please reach out. We are always eager to hear from you.