SPEAKER_04 0:01

I think we all recognize that caregiving is one of the most meaningful and overwhelming roles many of us will ever step into. In this episode, we talk with Tracy Carter about her new book titled Before Goodbye. Tracy Carter is a step guide to compassionate caregiving that offers emotional, physical, and financial support. When a loved one is diagnosed with a serious illness, she offers a practical and grounded approach to supporting loved ones through illness or aging and the unclear.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

That's right. So if you're caring for a parent, a partner, or friend, or just simply navigating a complex family dynamic, this conversation will help you move from reactive and overwhelmed to clear and supported. In this episode, we're going to be talking to Tracy about how to create a caregiving plan or how to communicate with family about caregiving responsibilities, which are a very, very great way to frame it. How to support a loved one without burning out and why supporting the caregiver and the family system really does matter. There does there's going to be practical tools, checklists, and frameworks that you can start using immediately. This episode is for caregivers, grief workers, creatives, and anyone walking alongside lost in any form, whether you're just beginning or already deep in it. You don't have to figure it out by yourself. We're here for you, and so is Tracy. Join us.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Goodness. Welcome everybody. It's great to see you or hear you or whatever. We enjoy you joining us again today. We really appreciate it. I'm the Reverend Waquil David Matthews. On today's episode, we get to meet Tracy Heath, who has a wide variety of experience, which really leads to, I think, a really um comprehensive way of looking at the work that she's done and that we're going to talk about today. She has um 30 years of experience in the investment industry. Um she won multiple awards, and so it really shows the amount of skill and dedication that she brings to it. She's also a speaker and educator, and she she noted that her wisdom transcends finance because she's also gotten a diploma in acupuncture and in orthomolecular nutrition, which is interesting. Want to know more what that is. Definitely. Um she's also certified as a positive psychology practitioner, mindfulness and meditation teacher, and a coach practitioner. So she really does have this broad knowledge to provide support across multiple areas.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yes, and I am the Reverend Mother Ana Luisa Armendadis, and thank you for showing up today in this etherspace, where we are going to be sharing uh a little bit about Tracy's own profound personal journey, which has been marked by many family losses, through which she has learned what resilience and empathy are and when to call upon those skills. Tracy's unique approach integrates emotional, physical, and financial health, empowering individuals, families, and professionals to navigate life's toughest challenges with grace and insight. She recently launched a book, Before Goodbye, Your Emotional, Physical, and Financial Guide When a Loved One is Diagnosed with a Serious Illness. This is to help other folks who are going to probably find themselves in similar situations. And it's with her wisdom and knowledge that she hopes others can gain clarity and have the courage to go through those moments. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity. This is great.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

So important. Appreciate it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah. So let's just dive right in. What inspired you to become the person you are today?

SPEAKER_03 4:08

You know, as we we know and we talk about as we're older, that we look back and go, oh, this is why all of these things happened. And that's really what happened in my instance because it wasn't um until just a few years ago that I had this moment and I I I actually have it, I think it's a calling. Like I just had this voice that said you have to do this. And um, and it said, you have to write a book. And I at the time had been uh doing triathlons and I was an outdoor person. I was not one to want to sit at my desk. I've never been the kind of person that says you have to write a book. And I always had that calling. I did not. So I resisted this. But what happened was is it was a culmination of my life experiences. And, you know, I had I had been running a business when I was in my 20s. And now I look back and go, wow, that's really young to be running. I actually had two businesses going. And um, during that time, both of my parents were were ill with fighting cancer, and it was long distance. My mom lived about an hour in one direction, and my father was dying, and he was about three hours in another direction. Wow. And I'm at home, you know, or not at a home business, but I had a business in my town, and I had a little one at home and a family, my my husband, and so on. And and you just manage, you put your head down, you get through it. And then from that, we also had other deaths in the in the family. Another brother-in-law um died suddenly at 40, my grandfather, it was just constant. And you just like I said, you just go through it, you do what you have to. I sold my business and I just can't do this anymore. As soon as my mom and dad died, a couple of years later, a few years later, I was like, this is too much. Um, I need to, I need to step back. And I had had a second child. I want to stay home with the baby and be home for a couple of years. And the commitment was two years. And I had someone ask me to come into the financial industry and said, you'd be great. So I was like, great, I can do the studies and then go in. So fast forward, I'm in the financial industry and now I'm experiencing other losses, but I'm helping a lot of my clients. I was a stockbroker. So I was helping clients, not trade stocks. I was dealing with families, and my conversations were different than you would call on someone else's in a stockbroker situation. I was dealing with families. I was, you know, someone would come in and say, okay, I have to save for whatever. I would have a conversation about what's going on in your life. What's, you know, tell me your family situation. And it was quite different. And I had a focus on you have to live today. Don't just save for your retirement. Live today, experience your life, experience your families. And because my perception was different. Like I knew my parents didn't live to a retirement age. They were, my mom was 50, my dad was 57. Wow. So very young. I was, you know, um, I was 28 when my mom died, and uh dad, and dad died eight months later. So it was like a lot when I was going through that. And and but it's like, okay, well, I can do this. And then having four deaths in three years and planning funerals and doing all of that and and so on, and it gives you a different insight than most people at that young age. So as I was doing finances again in a young age in my 30s, again, my perception was from somebody who had experienced a lot more than the average. And um, so fast forward, I'm getting further and further away from clients and more dealing with financial advisors themselves. And my again, my discussions were around the living today, not just for tomorrow. It's, you know, the investments, but talking about the whole family. And alongside my uh my life in the financial world, which was fabulous, like you make great money, but my passion was more meditation, mindfulness, and studies. So I took, you know, got my diploma in acupuncture, and I thought, you know, eventually I'll leave the financial industry and do that. And I was really interested in health and nutrition for my own sake, personal. It's like I'm just, you know, why did mom and dad have like why were these illnesses and my my brother-in-law with, you know, cancer and and so on. So all of these things, I wanted a better handle on nutrition and how we can heal ourselves and so on. So so the orazomolecular nutrition was was next and getting that, and and I love the psychology of everything, of the financial industry, but of what we're going through. And I just felt compelled to study and learn all of these things. And so as I'm going through life, that's sort of running a parallel to the financial world. And but I was like two separate worlds, really.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

But but it wasn't until I had um experienced the um the passing of some uh sibling-in-laws who were diagnosed with ALS, Lugaric's disease. And as we know, the you know, the typical timeline is two to five years. And there's no it is, and there's no cure, there's no real treatments for it. It's long, you know, you just know what's what's coming. Now we didn't know with the first brother-in-law. So experiencing that uh and all all the different fine family dynamics, and the next one and so on, and then fast forward to 2020 when the third sibling was diagnosed with ALS, and she and I had been very close, like sisters. We were often mistaken for sisters. And she was diagnosed, she only had five months. So she wasn't with us very long after her diagnosis. And then shortly after that, my brother was diagnosed with cancer. Like, so those were the two that's when I got the calling. Though those two things happened pretty quickly again after a span of not, you know, that critical issue of dealing with the family traumas. And and that's when I was driving in my car one day, and I'm like, why is this happening? And but it wasn't the wow, poor me, you know, this is happening to me. It wasn't. It was, what am I supposed to do with this? Because I have all of this experience. And other family members have been reaching out a lot, and especially in areas where you wouldn't think people would reach out to me specifically and say, I need your help. And it was at the moment that I'm driving and I go, I hear you have to write a book. And I'm like, I am not writing a book. I resist it. It's like, there's no way this is not my thing. I, you know, it's one of those things I was told never good at as a in school and all that with her writing, and you're not good at English. Leave that to your sister and she's the English major, no problem. So I come home and it's like I call my sister, it's like, you have to write this book. I tell her about that. And she's like, Oh, this is great. Yes, but no, that's your calling. This is not mine. This is your, you have all that information. So that's how it started. And then my my brother passed at 47. So I'm like, okay, people need this information because it was from the standpoint, and when people were reaching out to me, was um, and not just for financial, it was it was all of it. And they would call and say, My husband was diagnosed with fill in the blank. And my mom is whatever. What do we do now? I don't even know where to begin.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yeah. Well, why don't you tell us? Um, I I I love the fact that your book uh and uh kind of has like six parts to it, right? Six places that you go through. And and of course, we all want people to buy your book. We'll give them that, we'll give them the link to it. Yeah, but maybe tell us a little more about that um that process, the processes and how you tie those all together because they do um obviously connect to all the things you've done in your life. So, first of all, thanks for the you know, the kind of the understanding of what how this how you got here. But tell tell us a little more about that work.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Okay, so I'm in the financial world, so everything is based on that, and it's easy to write, you know, a finance book and you know, the how-to on that. But where I was coming from is again, I firmly believed there's three things. And it was part of my coaching exercise during my courses that I had taken, that we break things down into bite-sized pieces, right? So we can coach on this. Is it your relationships? Is it so on? And I went even more basic in instead of these huge numbers of areas that you ask, I found it was three. Everything boils down to three, and those three always overlap consistently. And that was your emotions, their physical environment, and your finances. So if one of those three things are out of whack, then it sends the others out of whack. So trying to get that balance. So to me, I was focused on well-being. And I saw it as a well-being, somebody that has has good positive health, has some balance in all three of those areas. And, you know, they're not struggling day to day to feed themselves. They're, you know, they're physically in a good environment. They're not in a in a negative, scary environment for them physically and and their emotions, they're able to manage, regulate their emotions. And what I felt was that in this, in this project that I felt that I was being called to to give out, I needed to figure out a way to get the emotions, the physical and the financial in there. And it was sort of through trial and error and little sticky notes, putting it on the wall and going, okay, here's the emotional stuff. And I realized, like going through again with my positive psychology and my uh nutrition stuff, is the biology and emotion is the same. Like it's it's very well linked. So what happens is when someone's given a diagnosis, it is a physical reaction, but we see it as an emotional reaction. And it's really both. But someone is like, okay, you have this, fill in the blank, or your mom has this, and so on. So we're gonna feel this emotionally. And in the end, I just figured, okay, we just have to take it through chronologically, through someone that's being diagnosed. And it's really my focus is on the people around the person that's diagnosed, you know, and which I call the loved one. The person that's diagnosed is your loved one. It's not a patient, they're not the diagnosed, they're your mom, your brother, your spouse, what have you. So I I purposely call them loved one throughout this. And taking it through the perspective of the people that are around the loved one is where I wanted to really help because whoever's the loved one, they're getting treatment, they, you know, everybody's focusing on them. But who's helping the helper? Who's caring for the caregiver? And there really aren't the resources out there. And the better we can support the caregivers and the rest of the family, the more support that they can give to the the loved one that's been diagnosed. So I took it through, let's go chronologically. What do you need first? So when people would reach out, okay, this has happened. What do I do? We have to determine what you're going through first. Well, how are you dealing with this? How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah. That is so important. And people tend to kind of skim over those very elemental pieces. I am going to say that uh I went to a caregiver retreat a few weeks ago, and AARP handed us three workbooks, almost exactly like your book. Like it is a thing about how do you take care of yourself as a caregiver? How what are your financial pieces in this? And then uh the other one was uh support and whatnot. But um, there is a huge need for this information. And it's really lovely that you're you broke it down, you've chunked it for people to be able to access it without being overwhelmed with this incredible, like daunting, massive task to take care of somebody. And, you know, I don't know the statistics about how many of us are going to be taking care of, you know, the boomer generation right now. Yeah. And it's coming, and people need to be reading books like yours so that they can actually get a handle on it before it's a it's an emergency.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

And and that's that's right. Like we're all gonna be caregivers, like in in some point or another. Um, and a lot of us don't even realize we are care caregivers, even when we're in it. And we don't typically say, Oh, yeah, I'm a caregiver. So when they do surveys, we know that that number is higher because we know the number of people are constantly saying, I'm oh, I'm not a caregiver. I just go over to mom's three times a week and cook her dinners and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

It's like actually that's came up too at the retreat. People, I think there were two women who were like, Oh, I'm not really a caregiver. And I have, you know, cousins or neighbors. Like somebody was driving an hour like once a week to take care of somebody her friend's father. Like, that's caregiving.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Absolutely. And but you don't see it as that because it's just, I'm just helping and you know, I'm just there and doing what I should do. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

So it sounds like the perception of what who needs this is a challenge, but what are other challenges that you've encountered?

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Um, well, the the idea that um a diagnosis isn't necessarily a diagnosis where they we know they're gonna die, like it's imminent. So and before goodbye is when you look at it as in the ALS, you know, when I'm dealing with somebody with ALS or Parkinson's plastic or other mortar neuron diseases, which we know is, you know, are going to be terminal for them. That's we know it's the goodbye is the final goodbye. But when we look at the goodbye, it's it's also for people that are going to that have parents with Alzheimer's and dementia.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

So the goodbye in that instance is they're still alive, but it's they don't recognize you anymore. So you have to make sure you're saying I love you, and the goodbyes before the actual final goodbye. And it's it's during that time. So it it isn't for something that's imminent. It can be used like like you said, anyone. We're, you know, get this information ahead of time. And it's and it's really a guidance to give ourselves permission that we can give ourselves self-care when we are looking after our families. And, you know, at some points it might just be that, you know, your spouse has a, you know, a surgery. So it's only gonna be a matter of a couple of months. The same information can apply in your own self-care, making sure you're looking after it.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

And your financial piece, I mean, even if it is just uh a surgery, there needs somebody needs to be cooking and who's gonna go out and get groceries, who actually pays the bills, right? Like if some one of the spouses is the sole financial person, how do you prepare for, you know, dad's gonna be in bed for five weeks and mom's never like cut a check? Because that's what we've heard too, right? Like there are a lot of pieces to this that people just are blindsided by.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Like exactly for sure. And um, and and I guess walking people through that, that step of like it's the what now, like what now, because the what now changes every day and every week. Because what you needed a month ago is now changed. So it's you're constantly coming back and the conversations will change. So as you have friends and family that come over, the conversation will change. So, you know, one person may be concerned about the finances and how are we gonna support mom or dad or whoever's ill, and you know, this is the kind of scenario, what are we going to do financially? So they can just dive in and go, okay, well, let's look at the financial aspect and you know, where, you know, who is their advisor and so on. Because, like you said, like even at that caregiving summit where you have AARP, they're giving you three books. Well, when someone's being diagnosed, they're getting information on their disease, their, you know, oncology and physiotherapy and all these different things. So you've got multiple professionals that you have to deal with. And they're all gonna give you books or pamphlets to read. And it's like, but again, you've got 20 things handed to you in the doctor's office, but where do I start? Like, what is the important thing? And that's why it's like, well, let's get your mind in the right space.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Start there.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

So that you can, yeah, so you can uh look at things uh rationally because because you're not, you're not your mind is I talk about survival mode. Your your brain shuts down, you're gonna be asked a ton of questions, you're not thinking straight. And that's on a regular basis. That's just that's constant. So it's like, okay, where do we go from here? And how can you get into that mind state? And that's why in my in my book, and I I recommend this for anybody that's helping, like professionals helping your um, you know, your loved ones, is lists like give them a list of things because then they don't have to think, they can just choose one. And that's for anything you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

I I will say we just interviewed a very wonderful person who came up. Remember, Joaquil, um, the four different types of grievers.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Of grieving of grievers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

And I feel like you two should talk because because you know, I appreciate that there's a book of how to do this, and it sounds like the onus gets given of of devoting this time to caregiving winds up on the shoulders of one person. And if there's a family, there should be like, you know, it's distributed. But she was saying that some people are the emotional caregivers, some people are like the steady, let's get this stuff done. You know, there's all these different kinds of uh Of ways that people show up. And your book is great for the steady, let's go get it done.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

It sounds like she also covers the other emotional part too. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yeah, no, no. But I just I think the working like to understand, like it is overwhelming. It's okay. If you can divvy up the work, let's do this book together, right? So yeah, I do, I do appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Okay. And and I address that uh in there as well. Because when you're choosing, let's say we're choosing your um uh powers of attorney. So you're you know, the person who's going to be making your decisions for you. Who do you want to be making your financial decisions and who your physical and so on? And and that's one of the things we discuss. Are they the ones that can make those decisions? Are they going to be in a puddle because they're so emotional and they can't make the decisions themselves? It may be your favorite daughter or your favorite son. Don't choose them if they're not going to be able to actually do the job. So I outline what the actual work is involved with those. Okay. So you can make a decision. And then I explain that to, you know, again, the professionals, is we have to make it really easily understood for people. Like be very clear on how you're going through the information and um and and piecemeal. And what comes up though, too, you know, when you're choosing like your powers of attorney and so on, is the family dynamics.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

So there's a lot in there too, or you know, we need to have those discussions, preferably before tough decisions have to be made. Right. So we know, um, okay, uh the this one brother or something may not be part of the family, you know, or an aunt or uncle, you know their personalities and so on. How let's let's prepare ahead of time so we know what's going to happen and how we're gonna behave and how we can, you know, plan things out. So that's in there as well. I love this thing I do.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

I love this, right? Yeah, it's so needed. And what Keel and I talk about this all the time. Like, yeah, we need more people to do this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

I mean, the the the name of our podcast is let's talk about this, basically, you know, and get it talked about now. And more you talk about it, the less likely it is to be traumatic, as traumatic as derail the family.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

I'm still like in shock over this uh this statistic we heard last week that 61% of siblings who lose who end up losing their parents at some, you know, at that point in their lives will never spend time together because there was so much friction at the end of parents' lives that they never want to see each other again. So I'm like, yeah, let's take care of that statistic. That should be the reason we don't we want to do this work too.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

And uh so oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Um I also really think it's important we talked about a bit there, the the understanding the needs that the person's gonna have or that that the people are gonna have. Like, what are what are you good at or what do you need to have? Like I had a friend who, when he died, his wife had never driven a car, you know. And uh, you know, so so we and actually part of the class I do, I hand out an assessment checklist that anybody could use at any time because it even happens between uh spouses, you know. Um, my friend called me one day and said, My wife's out of town, I have no idea how to load the dishwasher, you know. So just the kind of getting these conversations done ahead of time and start to think about what are gonna be the needs, who's gonna be able to manage this and who's not is really important. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

That's and and it's the gaps like you're talking about there. It's like let's figure out what your needs are and then figure out what the gaps are.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

And then we got to find the solutions to that gap. So when you're doing and and caregiving, like I've been to the the different caregiving conferences and so on, and and there are so many different areas where people, you know, find gaps. And it's like, oh, we don't have this need. So because they're so unique to every situation, again, having a list. So when, especially when someone comes up and says, like a neighbor, it could be relative, and they'll come up and say, you know, I'm here for you, whatever you need. That's but they throw it out there and leave it blank. Right. That's and it's like yeah. So the the onus is now on the caregiver again to ask. Well, we're not gonna ask. We don't ask. Like we don't ask for help. And so again, if you have a list of what needs to be done, like the dog needs to be, you know, walked every morning or whatever, give them a list. Like it's like, you know what? Here's a list, pick something, anything. You know, like uh it could be the kids need to be taken to their music lesson. There are so many little things, gardening, yeah, you know, watering my plants, all of those things, put them on a list and let them choose because then they can choose what works in their schedule. Right. And it might be the things that you don't expect. Right. And and and same with food, because people will often drop off food. You know, it's like I know you're busy, you're taking them to treatments and so on. Give them a list of foods. You know, I would love, you know, any of the food would help because mom, blah, blah, blah. Um bring me donuts. You know, yeah, exactly. Or here's a list of granola. Yeah, exactly. We're sick. Yeah, because people will drop off pies. Right. Well, if they hate pie or they hate apple pie or pigs, everything. Yeah, we appreciate it. These are the kind of pies she likes or whatever. Like, don't feel bad about that. It's like, you know what? Here's some stuff that somebody told me to write a list. So here you've got it. It is a godsend because now they can fill in the gaps for you.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Right. So I just want to point out um that my birth midwife uh was so lovely that she actually put a sign out in front of my door and it said, Washing machine is here, dishwasher's here, broom and whatever's here. She likes filtered water. She's got her thing there. It's like she left a list right at the door of if you're gonna come in to help support me, because I was on bed rest for eight weeks after my son was born, and I wasn't allowed to get up. And so I really did need, and there um thank God for strangers. I ended up having random people from around the front range come by and help me out because I had two kids and couldn't move. That's what we need. Like, I, you know, as a deaf midwife, I should be doing that for families because you do, you set up a sign, you're like, hey, if you're gonna come by here, check the plants as you walk through the house, uh, check the laundry, right? Like these are things that when we're in the acute caregiving role, we just cannot remember. And if we're asked, we won't even that won't even be light up in our brain cells, like, oh yeah, I should probably check the cat box. Right. So exactly.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

It is really great to do that. Yeah. So it's it's it's actually helping people that want to help. Like it's just it's making their lives easier.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

And I know the onus is on you to write lists, but just keep keep a notepad. And that's what I think I talk about. Have notepads around so that you people can write down. It's like, you know, I gave your mom a drink of water and you know, she had this to eat and that to eat, and and so on, so that you can share communications and and communication is a big one in there. So again, having communication props, like, how do we bring up those difficult conversations with the family? So, how do we get the ball rolling? How do we start the conversation? How do we, you know, do that? Because we need to communicate with each other, like the siblings and um in the financial industry, it's so commonplace that we're dealing with estates and you know, brothers, like you said, you know, 60 some percent siblings don't talk anymore, like after they've settled the the the estates. And they don't always fight over the money, right? Like that's what I keep stressing. It's uh, you know, in in divorce, it's called the blue plate syndrome that they fight over that blue plate that that was for whatever the Christmas cookies for it's it's not the you know, it's not the thousands of dollars always in the, you know, that they're fighting over the 1,000 here and whatever. It's oftentimes that little item. So having that conversation ahead of time. I talk about, you know, give your give your loved one the opportunity to have a ceremony, if they can. Obviously, it's you know, every case is different, but have a special day where you have the grandkids all over and you have high tea or something fun and fancy, and give them the things that you want to make sure that they have if they've got their eye on some something there. It's you know, so then it's not happening behind the scenes, and all of a sudden years later it's like, hey, where did the such and such go? You know, and then the then the like you said, after the estate's done, that's when the arguments happen and everybody's you know, the fights begin, right? Yeah, yeah, and avoiding some of that. And and um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Well you talked about um resources, you know, resourcing ourselves. I think you mentioned that as part of what you know, helping people have the resources they need. Is there what do you what do you do? What what would you recommend, or what do you do yourself um as you're working through all this to keep yourself resourced?

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Uh I think the the key thing, and we did already touch on this, the key thing is self-care. Like when someone is a caregiver, or even they're not admitting they're caregivers, um, we really need to focus on self-care and saying no. So the I have a list of things for self-care. You can't do them all. You just pick one or two, whatever. But the number one thing we learn need to learn is to say no. So it can be as simple as when someone says, I want to come over and visit or whatever, I want to do such and such. Learning to be able to say no and leaving it there. We don't need to explain ourselves. It's like, no, you know, thank you. I appreciate it, but no, not at this time. What in and it's sort of working through that. So looking after ourselves and boiling it down the, you know, the to the resources and figuring out what it is that you actually need in what area. So is it something physical that needs to be done? So is it um is it a renovation for the bathroom so that they can start, you know, we can take the wheelchair in there, you know, and figure out, okay, financially, is this viable? Do we need to move out of the house while this is being done? Um, and and that kind of thing. So sitting down, having family meetings is where I would find the number one resource first, is having communication with the family. Then we can take it outside and go, okay, what other resources do we need? So if you have a disease like ALS, well, you know you're going to need physical supports, whether it's special chairs, special wheelchairs, you have to get your name in quick because it's going to take months to get those to you. It's not instant. So getting the special bars and handles on uh the bathroom walls to be able to get in and out of the tubs or whatever it is, a ramp uh to get in and out of your house temporarily, getting the permits, getting those, the people involved to do that. That was actually one of the um the areas with my sister-in-law who had ALS. They had discussed, she was an avid gardener. She loved being outside. She spent most of her time after work, she'd be outside. And there were only steps at her back door to go down to the backyard. And so they discussed, okay, we have to get a ramp. Like to get a ramp and do that. Time goes by, nobody's doing anything. I'm sitting there visiting with her, and she's almost in tears because she just wants to be outside at her garden and she can't get out there. You know, a couple of us can help carry her and so on. So it's like that's when advocacy comes into play. So that's one of the things, what can I help with? And you know, they had already measured. So it's like, why aren't we doing this? Like, why has this not happened yet? So it just took someone to pick up the phone, get the quote, and say, okay, deliver the wood. Now we just need the people. Wood will be here on, you know, yeah, in two days. Get it done. So it's advocating on behalf of that person because she was not going to do it. And there were many times, like, and it's very commonplace. They're not going to ask for, especially big asks. Yeah. They're not going to ask for help. They might ask for a blanket or something, but even then, they they won't often don't say that they're cold. Um, you know, the lights are too bright in here, that kind of thing. So it's trying to be asking questions of them, you know, how comfortable they are, and you know, that kind of thing. But I don't want to miss on on embracing the time you have because a lot of this stuff that we've talked about were challenges. But it's like, you know, other than celebrating with, you know, someone and handing out the the little trinkets around the house or the whatever it is, furniture and so on, is embracing the moments we have with our loved one and reminiscing, having conversations about their life and getting that down on paper, getting it on video, getting it on recordings so that information isn't lost once they're gone. You know, where did you meet mom? And, you know, where did you, you know, what was your first date? What was your favorite? One of my biggest things that I love to have my um, you know, any anybody ask is favorites, because that's an easy one. That's an easy door opener. Like what's your favorite, what was your favorite holiday? What was your favorite, you know, um birthday party, or what was your favorite trip, you know, your favorite mo um meal. All of those kind of things opens up conversation when you're sitting there. Because, you know, if somebody's ill and they're bedridden, especially, what what do you talk about? That, you know, and and as an aging parent, especially if they've got dementia and Alzheimer's, get that information on on tape, on recording. And and if they're physical enough, like they can physically, they're still going outside and doing things, get them to cook their favorite recipe. Get it on film. So now the grandkids who aren't even born yet, perhaps, they have a video of grandma making their, you know, or that Nona making their their special spaghetti sauce with that secret ingredient, right? So, you know, getting that that down and embracing spending time with them and and thinking of the fun times, not just the what's going to happen.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

I appreciate that. That's really important. Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Well, yes, I think we're we're close to being done. Yes. Yes. Yes. Um did you uh is there anything else that we haven't? I mean, I I think you kind of did that just now. You just said that really when you want to really emphasize that the making making your time together. Yeah. That's that's really anything else that we left before we start.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

It's a lot of people don't do the the making memories, like consciously making memories. So again, if they can go somewhere, get the family together to go to the beach, you know. Um, get a get, you know, uh an ambulance that actually just transport, like an ambulance transport to take them to the location they want to go if they need to be wheelchair and you don't have the the accessibility. Get them to where they loved, they always loved going, get the family together for a special day.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Get souvenirs and and you know, things from that location, you know, sand from the beach that you took them to and and have that positive memory for going forward that you know they loved to do and that you can embrace that.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

And and that translates to final days. Like we haven't really talked about the final days, and if we know, like with um whether it's made and they we know they have a DNR or what have you, explaining those things to them, first of all, so that they're aware and the rest of the family understands what what's entailed. And and a big, big thing is we don't have an opinion when it comes to someone else's, is it's allowing them the only person's opinion that counts is the loved ones. And they're the ones that get to have that opinion. But if you know what their favorite things are, and if they are, you know, taking advantage of MAID, or even if they know that, okay, today I'm not gonna use my breathing apparatus and we know we're gonna pass. So um, such as in my instance with my sister-in-law, we knew the day was coming. She didn't need to use maid, she couldn't breathe on her own. And she wanted to go and pass when it wasn't Christmas, wasn't around somebody's birthday. She didn't want to have those memories, you know, of that for everybody else. So we knew it was her final day. So we had a celebration on that final day. We had mamosas, bellini's that she could barely sip, but she was drinking that. We had played her favorite music. Um, I've got videos still that I videotaped her trying to sing. And we facetimed all the relatives that couldn't come in because it was during COVID. So FaceTimed her friends and family, watched her favorite movies. And so that horrible day, like of her last day, we still have decent memories. Like we still have some positive memories of laughing with her and telling her funny jokes and the things that she used to always say and and go through her funny, funniest, fabulous movies. Because we had hours. We knew it wasn't going to be an instant thing with her. And and we had hours to embrace her, and everybody got the opportunity to come in and have a moment with her, to hug, to cry. Um, you know, we're all going to miss, you know, the joy that we've had and and and so on. So embracing that instead of avoiding it, and too many people avoid that scenario. And whether if you're if you're spiritual, that's fabulous, because then we have a, you know, an understanding of maybe something greater than us, and we can embrace that transition. Yeah. But a lot of people don't yeah, but a lot of people don't have that. So if we can make some other type of ritual at least and and embrace something, embrace that day as being special that we will always remember for the rest of our lives and trying to make it a little bit more, I guess, bright, you know, as opposed to the darkened dinginess of the the transition and having that love with everybody around and um and music, like we had music and and and so on, and um to make it.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

You mentioned a couple of times, you mentioned MAID, and I want to just make sure it's understood by those who may not know that that um is an acron acronym for medical assistance in dying. Sounds like you might be in Canada. I am which is uh which has that available everywhere in Canada. In the states here, we have I think a dozen states now or so. So um, yeah, that's that's and part of that part of why I want to make sure we first of all let people know what that is. But secondly, um that often is a time for people who who've been able to make that choice to decide they're gonna have a celebration before. You know, they can they can celebrate their life, their they can have their memorial with with their friends before they die, you know. So yeah, that that's come up before us a few times. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

And planning and planning what they want. So when I'm gone, this is what I want.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Yeah, you can do that as well. And we want to, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

When I was taking my positive psychology course, that was one of the things we had to do is plan our do our own funeral and our our write our own eulogy. Um that type of thing. It's like, okay, this is great. But it gets you tapping into that thought process because someone's going to have to do it, you know, at some point, or at least be told this is what I want or don't want afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Great gift to give to our loved ones to do all this.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

So absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Thank you. It's really, really beautiful what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

So I appreciate it. Um, we have a quote that we can end with. Do you want to read your quote or do you want us to?

SPEAKER_03 41:44

Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Yeah, if you'd like to.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Um, this is one quote that is from your own work that is um says, give of yourself. Don't give up on yourself. Or don't give up yourself. Self-care is not selfish, it is essential. So important, so true, and exactly what we've been emphasizing here.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Absolutely. And should I read the other one?

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

All right. So this is by Char Charlotte Bronte. Crying does not indicate that you are weak. Since birth, it has always been a sign that you are alive.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:24

We find we find uh gender differences and men typically it's like they feel guilty if they cry and they're, you know, when they're with their loved one and they're sad that, you know, you've been diagnosed with this, they don't feel that I can't um I can't control this. And none of us control what's going to be happening. And that's one of the emotions that you go through as soon as you're diagnosed because your body is betraying you. I don't have control now. It's in the doctor's hands or or what have you. And um, quite often we don't allow ourselves to cry that it's like you're going to be missing this stuff. And it's like, no, embrace the tears. Like it's a chemical, you you need the chemical release. Like we we we need this. So so it yeah, embrace it. Where it's part of our life um to be able to cry.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

And it be in in in this group right here, I'm more like more likely to be crying than Ana Luisa, who's just like, I am a very rare and random crier.

SPEAKER_03 43:19

Yeah. So anyway. But embrace that. Like we're we're allowed to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

We love that. We that's very important. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for joining us, and we look forward to uh keeping in touch and hearing more about what you're doing and getting a chance to read your book. And um, that'll all be in the podcast notes. And thank you everybody for joining us. Please watch spread the word and share it and like it and do all that good stuff for us and subscribe. And we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Yep, adios. Adios. Bye. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Thank you for joining us today. Thank you to Charles Heastan, the composer of the original music you are listening to now.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

And of course, thanks to you, our audience, and all of our amazing guests. Please come back next week for another great episode. Share this with your friends, family, and community. We hope you will subscribe and follow us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, and Substack. Each guest's additional information will be found in the podcast notes. And of course, if you have a good end of life story to share, please reach out. We are always eager to hear from you.