SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everybody, you know, Ana Luisa and I have noticed over and over again when we've been interviewing people or teaching people about end-of-life stuff that it's really quite often the case is that people don't understand what hospice is or does until they're facing one of the hardest moments of their lives. We often hear that they I think the statistic is maybe only two weeks. People only spend two weeks in hospice quite often, and uh it's available six months, you know. So um it's really kind of a missed opportunity to have a really, really good care. So in this conversation, we get to meet Primo Jayadev. She is the executive director of Volunteer Hospice of Clallam County, that's uh on the Olympic Peninsula uh in Washington State, right across the Salish Sea from where I live. Um the final days of life when it's done well. And together we can we get to explore with her how compassionate, community-supported care can ease suffering, support families, and help people approach death with greater dignity and less fear.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

That's right. She shares her experience with being a director of this nonprofit volunteer hospice, which I'm amazed at how so many people have volunteered to support this place. Priya speaks to how nonprofit hospice organizations differ from the traditional hospice providers and why the volunteers are the heart of exceptional end-of-life care. And she also touches about a little bit about how to open conversations about death and how they can transform the experience of dying for individuals and families alike. Priya discusses the growing role of death cafes and community education in helping people prepare and understand the time of the this universe universal experience that uh they're embarking on. Whether you're caring for an aging parent, supporting a loved one with a serious illness, working in healthcare, or simply wanting to better understand hospice, this episode offers practical guidance, compassionate insight, and hope for creating more connected communities. Welcome everyone to this episode of End of Life Conversations. I am the Reverend Mother Anna Luisa Hermendades, and today we are speaking with Priya Jayadev. Priya is the executive director of Volunteer Hospice of Clallam County, a community-funded nonprofit providing an industry standard hospice care at no cost to patients. She holds a PhD in cell biology from Duke University and spent 11 years in pharmaceutical research and development before transitioning into the nonprofit leadership role.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

And we're so glad she has transitioned. Yes, great work.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

We need her.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah. I am the Reverend Joaquil David Matthews. Priya previously served as executive director of Klala Mosaic, supporting individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Here's more about that too. She currently serves as the president of the Port Angeles Chamber of Commerce and on the board of the Nonprofit Association of Washington. One of those people like uh Aunt Lewis and I who can't say no and who get ourselves into lots and lots of work. And I really can't tell you how much of we appreciate the work you're doing. So um I heard about you when I was over visiting Port Townsend, which is in the Column County where you live. And we were talking before we got on about how important it is to notice that the what do you say, seven tribes? There are seven tribes in Column County?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

In this area, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

So that that's uh and it's a real big part of that county. So I'm sure that has something to do with the work you're doing as well. So we'd love to hear more about you and all you do.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Yes. I'm so excited. Thank you for having me.

unknown 4:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

So let's start out by asking you what in your life inspired you to do this kind of work?

SPEAKER_02 4:12

So I actually stumbled into this kind of work, but but stumbled in a not almost intentional way in some ways. Uh, I will step back and say that when I was back in the for-profit world, I had the experience of having hospice come in and have a conversation with me during my dad's uh journey, his end-of-life journey. We did not end up having hospice on board simply because we um his passing was very quick. He died within days. It wasn't enough time to get a hospice on board. That said, I remember the conversation with hospice settling us as a family, getting us to a point of understanding what in the world is this all about, because none of us talk about it, none of us are prepared. We're always unprepared. And so that experience made a huge, huge impact on my psyche. So when I came out to this area and I was looking at positions, I initially was at uh Clown Mosaic. And then um, as I moved to another um job opportunity, this came to the forefront as something that really resonated with me. And that's how I landed here. It was kind of a stuffle, kind of a a little bit of a resonance. It was a calling. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Yeah, it's funny how those happen.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

That's great. Well, I'd like to hear more. I'd like a little actually hear a little more about the mosaic one as well, since um that's always of interest. And my my wife works in that area as well. And uh, and then tell us more about that and and also the new the nonprofit you're working in now and kind of what it's about, what it's doing, what its work is.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Yeah. So when I moved out to the peninsula, I came from an industry position in pharmaceutical research. And so when you come out to the peninsula, that is not an opportunity that you can use as a job calling. Um so what I did have was experience with um kind of administrative management and and grant writing and a lot of the skill sets that translated well into nonprofits. Um, at that time, the opportunity that was available was with Cloud Mosaic, again, a stumble into position. Um I was uh there for nine years, and um I think I think there's value in having leadership at a nonprofit where you have lived experience. And I can say that I did not have someone with direct uh relational uh contact with me who had significant intellectual developmental disabilities. So I think it was time after nine years to move to a different position where someone with lived experience could take on that leadership role. And so as I was looking at positions, this came to mind. And Volunteer Hospice is an interesting organization. One, it's like one in four in the nation because we are completely not just a nonprofit, but completely independent and community supported. We do not bill Medicare, we do not bill Medicaid, private insurance, the the patient, the family, nobody. We bill absolutely no one. We can do this in Washington State because um Rosecrumb, our founder, created volunteer hospice in 1978. Um, and if you recall, the hospice concept re-emerged in the US back in 70 or 72, 74 timeframe. So four years into the re-emergence of the concept, um, you know, Rose Crumb here in Clallam County was this visionary nurse who was like, I want that to happen here. And everyone in this community was like, why would we want that? We don't need that here. And she was a force of nature. She made it happen, she created this uh organization. And then in the 80s and 90s, when Medicare started funding the hospice concept, because hospice obviously saves money in the uh healthcare system. Medicare recognized that by the 80s and 90s and started uh funding it uh through a Medicare hospice benefit. When that came into play, Rose was like, nope, I want my independence. I don't want someone else telling me how I do my care. I want to do the best care possible. And she mobilized her son, Patrick Crumb, and she mobilized Derek Kilmer, who was in the state legislature at that time, and then went on to federal representative position. But at the time, two very strong, powerful attorneys, and they put her in front of the Washington state legislature over and over and over until she got what she wanted. We have a carved-out RCW exemption in Washington state to operate without Medicare licensure and still be a legal hospice operating in the hospice space.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

So what that allows us is the ability to be very different. Our disciplines, when we got that licensure exemption, we had to put volunteer into our name. Up until then, we were hospice of Clown County. But then we became volunteer hospice of Clown County. And there's a bit of a misunderstanding that we're all volunteers. We are not. We have staff, paid staff as well as volunteers. But but our paid staff is very limited in disciplines. Our paid staff are nurses and nurses' aides and programmatic uh support activities. So other than that, we have a cohort of uh volunteers wrap around support and we come in partnership. We don't, as a hospice, come in and take over the patient, we come in partnership with the existing care team. So stepping back to just put a little bit more framework on it, we have about 17 to 19 staff. Majority of those are nurses. Nurses represent the core of care in hospice care. So the majority of our team is nurses. We have three nurses' aides, we have about four people in our programmatic support staff. And then wrapping around that, we have almost 200 volunteers. Those volunteers run our front desk, they run our lending program, they run the lending closets that we have where anyone in the community can come and uh borrow equipment, no questions asked, no timelines put on it. Um they run our delivery program, which delivers things that have to be assembled within the house for community members, so hospital beds, transfer polls, those kind of things. And for patients, many other things can also be delivered, non, non, you know, not requiring assembly. Those can also be delivered. For community members' delivery is only of things that require um assembly. So our volunteers run the lending program, they run our front desk. They also are the people that go in to do respite care, they are also the ones that do one-on-one grief support, they are the ones that run our grief support groups, they do a number of things. They run um the death cafes that we have, which is open conversations for community to come talk about death and dying. Um and they do all kinds of other things that are, you know, one-off special-based activities. So we have this team that's very small, that's staff. So we have partners like the physician that is the the referring physician. Staff doesn't ask about, yes.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Yeah, yeah. So, but let me ask you this is this a facility or is it are you out in people's homes?

SPEAKER_02 11:54

We do all of our work in the home that the patient calls home. Majority of the time it is a private house. Um, sometimes it is a facility like a supported nursing facility or an adobe home or you know, uh other kind of setting. But generally, I would say 90 to 95 percent of our patients live at home in a private home.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Okay. That's great too.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Yeah. And so the the the physic the the physician is the person who was attending to that person. So you do have a bunch of physician physicians who are still contributing to the team. Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

We have their providers stay on. And in fact, you know, I mean, with the end of life, you've got medications that are, you know, pretty heavy-duty medications sometimes. Right. Um, not that it's required, but some uh oftentimes to manage pain and comfort that is needed. And in those situations, that that patient's original physician stays on board and is their their provider. Think about it from a continuity of care piece, who knows them better? Somebody coming new to the game at the end of life or somebody who's been with them for a while. It's that's right.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

I love that. That concept is so good. And and having worked in hospice and uh both and and both of us have done that, and Chaplain C and hospice and um the the commercialization of it after now that it's become financially for profit for profit in most cases, uh, I think has been the downfall of hospice because it's really and I love that uh that uh the nurse took took it upon herself to create something different and really go back to what it was meant to be in the first place. I think it was meant to be a community connection, a way to a community to support each other. And I think we we very much are believers in the um the community support and and every every little community that's really all we have when it comes right down to it, and to have a way to um bring those folks in. So my my question would be around a couple of the other people who are usually parts of that team. Um, so are there people who do like the social worker role or the chaplaincy role? Um or do you just is that from their own community that's already there? So often people have somebody in their spiritual community. Um yeah, what is how does that work?

SPEAKER_02 14:14

So the chaplaincy role is actually done by uh a myriad of volunteers. I think we have nine spiritual care volunteers that are active. We have more than that, but currently active, I think we have nine. And the chaplaincy piece has worked in that volunteer modality.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Um, and we have some chaplains, you know, who are very much uh uh aligned with a particular faith, and some who are not, you know, who are very more general more generalists. Um and then everything in between, right? And so we are able to, with this volunteer core, match the chaplaincy piece and the spiritual care piece with the need of the patient. So we've been fortunate in that that has worked.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

That really is amazing, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'll I'll note I'll note people may not know what the peninsula is when you said that, and it's the Olympic peninsula in Seattle, uh west of Seattle. Um, and it is basically rural, kind of a rural area.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

Very much.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

And so um that's the point that she made about it being unlikely to find a big corporate job there unless you're willing to commute a long distance. But um, yeah, so I wanted to make that clear for folks. And and it also to me really makes it remarkable that you have that um amount of volunteers available.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

200. That's so impressive.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

And the other part of the peninsula is that many people retire here, right? So we have a tremendous expertise base. It's a matter of them coming out of the woodwork and finding us or us finding them.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

And that's the piece though. I want to also address the second part of the question you asked, which was the social work piece. Um, and that piece of connecting patients with community resources, yeah, we have been less successful in finding enough social work support. And I'm gonna just take a little bit of a tangent and say, because many of our families, like across the world, not just the US, but across the world, they are in caregiving crisis when they're in their end-of-life journey. And social work is that piece of patching together resources for the caregiving support. And we have not had sufficient ability to support all our families with that support to enable, you know, caregiving resources into the home setting. So I think it would be valuable for us to have a paid staff member in social work. Um, unfortunately, right now we do not have that capacity, but I I do hope to make that happen as a paid staff member in future, whether part-time or full-time, I would like that. So, so spiritual care, we've been fortunate. I think many of the retirees that have come to us have that expertise, have that background, have that capability uh or that background training. Um, with social work, um, many of the retirees that are or the volunteers that have come to us have not been able to completely fulfill the need.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Yeah, understood. Understood.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Wow. That's incredible work, and I can certainly understand how that could be an issue for sure. Um we have interviewed lots and lots of death doulas. Um, and I'm wondering if some of the volunteers are considered death doulas or are trained as death doulas.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

I had the same question. I was like, I have doulas on the on board, there's so many out there.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

So um it's actually interesting. Um we did not have very many, if any, death doulas in our community. So about four years ago, Astra Draffen Pelos, who manages our volunteers, she's our volunteer services manager, she took it upon herself to schedule a death doula training that came out. And we trained a cohort, I think the first year of nine death duelists. And then subsequently, she did a second training session where she also got trained the trainer training. So she is now a trainer for death duelists, and then she ran a third cohort, which uh then we now have three cohorts of death duelists that are trained, and I think overall about 20 to 21 individual death duelists. Now, saying that, each person in that cohort has a different uh flavor spelled interest area. Some are more capable of coming in and helping with paperwork, some are more that, you know, end of uh end-of-life vigil piece, some are more spiritual, and it it's a whole range of issues, right? In that cohort. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

That's been that's been our experience. We've had many of them on, and and they're just they're as unique as human beings.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

As we say, everybody lives their own unique way, and everybody dies their own unique way, and everybody deaths do lives their own unique way.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

And are are they part of the volunteer cohort then as well?

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Yes, they are. And oftentimes they're the ones that go in and do uh like a support visit just to see, hey, what's going on in the home? Let's suss out what needs might be there. They're the ones that sometimes provide respite. Uh they are they're for emotional support. Sometimes the family is truly in like um grief even before the death. Right. So anticipatory grief support, all kinds of things that they are they're tasking. So they're wearing a lot of different hats.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

They're not just doula in for their the the client, but they're they're midwifeying the entire crew.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Indeed. Indeed. And that tends to be the uh the job description in a way for doula is this person has that wide range. And they and as you said, specializes usually in one thing or another.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

So that's great. Um let's see. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

So the challenges, but I I we already heard some of the challenges around um the need for social workers. What other challenges are you met with in your data?

SPEAKER_02 20:15

So I will tell you, you know, I also said that we do partnership with the provider, the physician. So where that becomes a challenge is that oftentimes um we have a patient in crisis and we need to manage that crisis with a medication adjustment. Sometimes a primary care provider is not near there when you need them. So what we have in place are these things called emergency prescriptions and standing orders so that we can execute something even when the PCP is not present to immediately support. It would be valuable, I think, for us to have a part-time provider who can help us with navigating some of this during some extreme emergency situations. So that is something that would help us. Again, it's a capacity piece of what does our budget carry us to allow us to do. Right now, it allows us to deliver at the level we can. And I will say that when we say deliver at the level we can, it is a very different delivery as well. There are times where our nurses go into a home and they can spend four hours. That is not the norm. That is not what generally happening. That could that wouldn't be tenable for every patient all the time. But there are times when a patient and a family need that. And so we are able to deliver that. So enabling that means that you know the rest of the caseload is something you shift, it moves to your peers, all of the things. We can accommodate that level of flexibility when a patient is in need, when a family is in need. Um, in order to do that, our our our expenses are essentially our Focused on that nursing need and funding that nursing need. So when we talk about expanding, how do we expand, right? Do we expand with disciplines like social work and physician? Or do we expand in terms of caseload because the demand is greater than the need? Because with our facility, we can do with our flexibility, we can do hospice, but we can also do palliative. And there are numerous people that come to us because they need palliation. It's not just, it's not just that last six months. We can support anything. So long as you have a lifelong illness and you have a nursing level need, we can support you. And what we're trying to do is triage the most needy first. But there's also a hundred other people that's in our palliative uh referral list, right? So what do we, what do we, what do we optimize for? The extra disciplines, increasing our caseload, because every every person that comes into our practice is expense with no concomitant income. So yes, we can achieve about 100 right now on caseload on a daily basis, but to grow it to 150 or 200, that's increased expense. How do we do that?

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

No, it's that piece of what do we do? That's right. Oh my goodness, what a dance.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

It really is. Yeah. So I can imagine, as with any nonprofit, it, you know, one of the challenges is always getting more money to come in. But it's also, as you said, it's the I and because being in compo corporate hospice, I know that the that you know you you have 10 patients you have to see today and and you have to get through all of them. And I love that that flexibility is given to you by being independent of that. Um, because that's so important. And so often when we were with somebody, we were like, we need to be here longer, but we can't. That's right. Because we've got to drive all the way across King County to our next patient before the end of the day. And so, yeah, I think that's really important to note uh as a wonderful benefit and a wonderful reason for people to give you more money.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

We're fortunate. I mean, at end of life, people are thinking about their legacy. So there is that fortunate aspect of it in terms of this space of nonprofits and who's gonna ask that because you are supporting people who um don't have to pay any money and who probably that is a need that they have.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

But are there um people who are well enough off that they can actually contribute to you or that maybe that's your donation process or something that they do?

SPEAKER_02 24:33

So I will I will say that um 85 to 90 percent of my budget is donation, so individual donor base. Wow. Um the rest is is uh local community grants, um foundations that are very focused on this community that do give to us, especially for our nursing supplies. Um we we do rely on our foundations that are local. That said, I run a $2 million budget currently and annualized, I I struggle with raising that full amount on an annualized basis. We are fortunate in that we have a little bit of reserve that's board-designated reserve, that does allow me to run a budget which is in deficit to some extent, but that's not a sustainable model. And my goal before I leave this organization is to raise that that um reserve so that we never touch the corpus, but we always focus on just getting the interest off it so that we can be sustainable for the loss.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Yes. I really, I mean, I hope people who are listening to this and have deep pockets would contribute to this because one, it's amazing. But, you know, I I I have been uh working on some getting ready to do some grant writing, but you know, I I always remind people 64 million, you know, boomers are gonna be passing through possibly your doors in the next 30 years. You know, we need you to be ready for that financially, you know, with a a lot of people trained to do this work because it's imperative that we see it coming. So please help. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

And and help your own local, I like the local um way of looking at things too, because I think that's so important. And you know, Clown County folks, you're you're tuned into them. I'm tuned into Snowhomish County, uh, Northsking County, maybe, and um Anna Luisa's in Denver. And so I think we what I found, and and when I first kind of reached out to people for this nonprofit, asking them if they'd like to be a part of the um kind of the resource list, um, they quite often there were people like it was only Washington State, and and they would they would write back and say, Well, I'm you know, I'm in Spokane or I'm in Vancouver or whatever. And and my response became after thinking about this and working on it for a while, well, that's great. You do your thing there. We'll support you with a database that we'll create it. We have uh there's an um a desk care uh cooperative here in Seattle, collaborative in Seattle that's um putting together a database of resources. So we're working with them. So we'll have a a database of resources that's statewide and eventually could be you know modeled everywhere. Um but I think it does come down every time to being um mutual aid, mutual aid in your own community is what really makes the most sense. So I appreciate that you're doing that work.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

I do too.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Yeah. Where are we? Sir It's your turn, my dear. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Um well, I think uh just go right to this because I think this is always important for us, is that how do you resource yourself when um you know, when when the world gets a little too crazy or when the work gets a little too hard? And um, is there anything about that that um that's difficult? And then how do you how do you resource yourself? What do you use? Because I think we all need to find more ways to do that.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think uh a number of things. So I I have a tendency to overvolunteer.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

We heard that. We heard that. I see you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

So I I get involved with a lot of local um activities. And so, for example, this weekend, I spent all of Saturday managing vendors for the Chamber of Commerce, right? We had a July 4th celebration here in town, and from eight in the morning until 11 at night, I was helping manage all the vendors at the event. Um, so I enjoy kind of disconnecting from the day-to-day of hospice palliative um illness and connecting with joy, like uh the celebration this weekend or Juan de Fuca Festival or the Crab Festival, but just engaging with community in a joyous manner. I think that that fills my cup to a large extent. Um, and I have family in Seattle, I have family, you know, locally that I can connect with. That is a huge part of that filling my cup piece too. But more than anything, I live on the Olympic peninsula. It is paradise. I can walk out my door and go hiking at the drop of a hat. Like it or not. It is phenomenal. This area is rejuvenating, just living here. So there's that piece as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Yeah, that's for sure. That's for sure. That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Yeah. I had thought of something earlier on that I wanted to bring up, and I wonder, because one of the things we when we talk to death doulas or people working in that area is that they often end up working for nothing. And many of them are trying to make a living. And so I wonder if there's any thought of somehow how they could be compensated, especially if they're trained as a death doula. Is there anywhere way for them to be compensated and maybe another work around that area? Or how does that work out for you and folks who are?

SPEAKER_02 29:55

I know that a number of families that we have supported have had paid death doulas that have come from out of area, in area, uh it's it's been buried. Um I think, like you were talking about of end-of-life resources, having a resource list um and us aware of it. So when our patients ask for resources, that is something we can share with them, right? Our death doulas can only do so much. Um they are volunteers. But as you said, you know, you don't, you don't, you have to make a living, you have to live a life. Um and to be able to do that, I think it's making yourself visible in this community, it's hard to find the resources. So anything that can facilitate finding the Death Doolas when we need them, because we've had numerous patients who've asked for it and there isn't someone available. Either the ones that are available are already busy or um they're just not here. Um and so, yeah, having a resource list would be a huge piece of that because um, in the situations where our patients need it, we can at least use that as a referral source.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah, well, we're gonna definitely this one that I'm helping, hoping to help with, um, we will definitely be sharing. Um, and so we might just be able to connect, all of us connect in that collaborative desk care cooperative. I think the more the better, and that we all can share more resources that way. So yeah, let's keep working on that for together. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

Yes, and and the last piece for us is um what do you wish we had asked you? What do you want to share with our audience?

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Yeah, so I I didn't put a thought into this, so give me a second.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Um what are the things I think I think giving people the understanding that it's never too early to talk about death, right? I think we live in this death phobic culture, yes, right? And so I one of the things I would like to talk about, I don't know what the question would have been, but I I think is that is the point of everyone needs to focus on planning and planning early.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

And just because you talk about death doesn't invite it in, right? But if you don't talk about it, it's too late when you um need the resources, and so the crisis hits and you're not capable of doing the things that you need to have the best end of life journey possible, right? I think it was Athil Gawande who said it's not about uh creating the best death, but it's about creating the best life till the very end. And in order to have the best life till the very end, you need to talk about it sooner so that it can actually be that best manifest very best. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

So true, so true. Yeah, that's basically why we're doing this cut podcast for three years. Because we really have that same mission, that same belief, and that same hope that people will pay attention. There's that we the statistic that knocked our socks off a while back that we often share is that um over 60% of siblings never talk to each other after their parent dies. And it's because of having never spoken about this to each other, never having a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

They fight about it at the end. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

And so then they're then they're all mad at each other and they never then they just it ruins ruins lives.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Um, yeah, so we we uh big advocates for that, big advocates for sharing resources and so appreciative of the model of what you're doing. I hope more people will be inspired to create similar models in their communities. I um I'm not sure if I guess that's a question. Is um is that something that volunteer uh hospice does a can people reach out to you and say we want to start one in our community? Is that something that happens or is done?

SPEAKER_02 34:00

People can absolutely reach out to me. I will say that we have a 48-year history because and because of that history, we have donations coming in, right? Money is always the barrier, right? Yeah, yeah, in order to create this, it's not trivial in cost. So if you don't have that existing history where the community already understands the value of this, then it's hard to create that. You would need a huge bolus to start. I would love to create a movement. Let's do hospice right, right? I would love to create that movement. Oh, yeah. Um there's a cost to it. There's a cost. And how do you get across that cost barrier? That's the key question.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

We need to find one of those guys with too much money in there uh and causing too much trouble with it.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Melinda French Gates or something has to come and fund this arena for multiple people.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

She's likely, yeah. I'm thinking of the ones who are less likely to do that. Yeah. Yeah. But something like that would be great to have them take this on as their uh new met new new job for the world to create these all over the world. That would be lovely. Yeah. Well, we can wish for that, we can hope for that, we can pray for that, we can send up our vibes and say, yes, let's make this happen. And we can, in our own communities, all of us here and in the audience, can think about how we might make something like that happen and and reach out to us or to um Priya and and uh thanks so much for the work you do.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

Yes, yes. Thank you for having me. I I appreciate it. Well, we'll talk about it. And don't leave yet because you have to read your poem or your your quote that you showed. Oh, do you have it in front of you? I will in a minute. I we we have it here, so it's no problems too.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

We could read it for you, or you could read it. Um, well, it it goes to the death phobic piece, right? My phone is from Lily Pincus. Um, and it's thinking and talking about death need not be morbid. They may be quite the opposite. Ignorance and fear of death overshadow life while knowing and accepting death erases the shadow.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Yeah.

unknown 36:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

It's not morbid. Thank you so much for sharing that.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Yeah, and for sharing your work and and your we really it's so great to meet a fellow human on this path. That's right. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you to Charles Eastan, the composer of the original music you are listening to now.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

And of course, thanks to you, our audience, and all of our amazing guests. Please come back next week for another great episode. Share this with your friends, family, and community. We hope you will subscribe and follow us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, and TikTok. Each guest additional information will be found in the podcast notes. And of course, if you have a good end of life story to share, please reach out. We're always eager to hear from you.