SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, hello again, everybody, to another weekly dispatch on the End of Life Conversations podcast. I am Reverend Joaquil David Matthews, joined with my dear friends Ana Luisa and Sam. Thank you for being here, everybody and the audience. Thanks for showing up. As always, we appreciate you all very much. We were talking about the idea of joy and finding joy and laughter and humor in the world, especially when you're in the midst of caregiving or taking care of people or grief. Um, there's it can be a really uh a balm to um to the work that to the work of going through grief and to the time of going through grief with your communities. So um we thought we'd chat a little bit about where we find joy and where you might find joy in your life when you're dealing with end of life and uh grief and et cetera.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

So or even if you're a friend with somebody who's going through grief right now, maybe little snippets of joy, not big ones, don't go boogie, don't go to disco balls yet. But you know, there's just you know, flowers are always a fun and beautiful, joyful experience for people. And you don't have to buy store bought, go outside and make a bouquet with all the natural found plants in your neighborhood. And I hope it brings a smile to someone's face. Just a moment, just a moment is all we need.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Yeah, yeah. And if they and if they're so deep that they go, oh my god, these will die too. You can uh you can turn that into some laughter, some dark humor too.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Yeah, yeah, and I and you know, we recognize not everybody's at this place or get everybody gets there at a different rate, but we do need joy, and we need to find ways to metabolize, transmute the grief that we are faced with. And because this is the one and only life you get, this one wild and precious life, as Mary Oliver would say to us.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

And it is important that we both hold grief and we hold joy in tandem.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Yeah, to balance it. So I was thinking about maybe we could share some examples of things that have brought our us joy. Uh so um my wife and I love to watch uh series now. Ever since COVID, you know, we've started watching streaming series on TV. And um, we just got done with a second 40 episode Chinese drama, all the manaring.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

She said that.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

And it's become a verb, you know, it's not like uh, are we gonna go, you know, are we gonna go to China tonight, you know? Um, you know, um other things like that. The streaming stuff really changed during COVID where we're not allowed away, a lot of things to do, and that brings us joy. You know, we find these um really uh compelling, fun stories. Um, we also love to read. Um, so we share uh with each other and with our friends. We always share good ideas for books or movies. Um when I was visiting Ana Luisa a while back, we she gave us tickets to a really fun movie, you know, a biopic, um which was really it was unique. It was a unique biopic in that I didn't finish the uh get done, we didn't get done at the end and go, wow, those guys are assholes. Like most of the biopics I've seen. Um but in fact we were like, this guy is a pretty awesome guy, you know.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

And we had a good laugh. We had some good laughs in that too.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yeah, exactly. Some very good ones, yeah. And finding humor, um, of course, just jokes online. Dad jokes are good with me, you know. I'm a good dad joke guy because I'm a good dad. Or uh or when I watch the news, I love to watch the comedy version of the news. You know, um, because if I'm gonna deal with the news, I might as well be laughing at it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

That's a good point. I need to do that.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

I don't do that in that yeah. The in in that vein, I actually find uh there are a number of stand-up comedians doing very poignant um stand-up regarding current events. Yeah. And it's more journalistic than much of the news. And I learn more about what's going on in the world and the reality of it, and laugh, you know, find a way to laugh about it uh through through those those avenues. I think Josh Johnson is a pretty big name. He's great these days in in that work of the fantastic storyteller, yeah. And in relating um global uh events and personal stories uh that are both very yeah, humorous.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Yeah. And music in general is always great, like we talked about and another one of these. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

I was gonna say, I love all the above. Please sign me up for some more. And uh I love dressing up. I love if I have to go somewhere, uh I might be the one who's wearing the silly glasses, I might be the one who's wearing a clown outfit. I might show up uh with really silly shoes. And you know, my kids are like, aren't you embarrassed? I mean, actually, they don't even ask this anymore. They're like, Aren't you is it don't you have any shame? Like, and I was like, you know, people are gonna not like me for a lot of different reasons, and how I show up to this event is not gonna make a big difference. So I think that sometimes um I struggle with that because I I struggle with it just a touch of depression, and then those times you just don't want to get out of bed, you don't want to see people. Uh, but you know what you still have to get dressed, and if you have like a silly scarf that you can just wrap yourself in and and just walk around the the kitchen and you know say this is so fun, put on a silly song.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah, I remember one time, Ana Louisa, we we were having just a casual phone call, and I showed up on the screen and you said, Sam, are you going out on a date? And I said, Nope, I'm just making dinner. Yeah, it's right here. Yeah, just you know I'm gonna have to get dressed, just you know, adorn the temple. Adorn the temple.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

Adorn the temple and have fun, bring out the the the outfits you haven't worn that you probably should get rid of, but if you wear it once, it can stay in your closet. That's how I think of it. I change my earrings like three times a day, I have to say. Like every morning I put on and I sit there and I like who wants to go out for a walk this morning, and then have something with my outfit. And then if it's like like I was wearing banana earrings a little while ago, and you know, it's just it makes me smile, it makes me kind of giggle for myself.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

So that's so good.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Find joy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

We had a we went to a market with our we have a grief booth that we went to um for a nonprofit I work with here. And um, we were it was supposed to be Christmas in July, and nobody else in any of the market did this, but we were like fully outfitted, you know. We had our Sandic hats on and lights going, and you know, we like we took it very seriously, considering we were the booth about grief, you know. It's like nobody else is doing this stuff, but we were like, yeah, let's have fun with this, you know. So I think it is a part of it, part of uh people with people like us who like are willing to be open about our what's in our hearts, can also really be open about sharing some laughter and sharing some fun and sharing some joy. And and as you said early on, in this, you know, one of the best places for that is just walking through the woods, you know. How much joy can you tell? Just the the birds singing and the flowers blooming and the water, the creek laughing at you as it goes along, you know. There's so much joy to be found outdoors. And and uh so that's another one of our places that we go for that. Yeah. So find places. And and somebody was saying earlier too, as a not only as a caregiver, but just as a friend to somebody who's being a caregiver or somebody who's going through grief and loss, just think about ways that it have been have been helpful for you to find joy and invite them, you know, and and and bring it to them, you know, bring it to them. Don't don't ask them if they want to, you know, go to them and say, hey, let's watch this video or let's uh let's go for a walk or um let's let's tell dad jokes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

What is a dad joke?

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Uh I mean super cheesy, corny. Just corny, cheesy stuff. The kinds of things that your kids would cringe about.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

I'm not a very good jokey person, so that is uh a blind spot for me. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

There's there's whole websites on dad jokes.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Okay, I might have to like peruse those.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

I don't they don't lock in up here. They don't lock in. Remember them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

Yeah. Or, you know, um if you're a friend and somebody else is having a hard time, maybe showing up with a a board game or a second of uh of cards and just like wild away the time doing something silly or fun and or simple, mindless. All of those can be a salve for sadness and grief.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

And there's a lot of really funny card games out these days.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

You know, oh yeah. It's not limited to cards against humanity anymore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

I know. I think my kids have like uh smashy kittens or something or uh exploding kittens. Exploding kittens, but then I are stacked, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

My son is really good at finding party games. You know, he likes to host parties and have these party games that are just a a crack up, you know, where you you're asking people, uh, you know, I wish I could remember a good one, but just things where you really are getting deep into people's psyche and what they're thinking, and um, it could be a little embarrassing, but it's also could be a lot of fun because you really get to know each other.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

And maybe it's not like right after grief that this this game shows up at our doorstep. Maybe like you know, a couple months later. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Yeah. Though you know, as we're talking about this, some of my dearest friendships and and favorite moments of that depth and finding the the way that engaging deeply with grief and the loss challenges the crunchy side of life and how it expands the capacity for joy and love. And that is is those friendships where when the tension gets really thick, when the tension is really tangible and stuff feels really, you know, frictious, and and the ability to speak a joke into that space or make light of how tense things are, yeah, can just release so much of that tension. And it takes a lot of trust, I think. Yeah. Uh and a lot of like knowing of the person and like what's maybe an appropriate joke, and they don't always land. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Yeah. I mean, you know, we're talking we're really talking about you, that you, the listener, you the person who wants to support others in grief, you the one who's going through grief. What what speaks to you? What doesn't? Can you be, you know, if your friend shows up and is trying to be sweet and funny and you're not ready for it, you could be oh, it's okay. I'm not ready yet. I'm moving towards it. I'm still in my grief process, but maybe we can just sit in silence and stare at a sunset or something, right? Like there are possibilities of like filling our temple with the light and the spirit of reconnecting to our bodies and being in a here and now. Because I think grief sometimes just really pulls us deep inward and away from, and it's not natural to spend the rest of your life feeling that way. Yeah, it is natural to go through your own cycle to take care of that. And once you're on the other end, come back to the land of the living and rejoin and join you know the caravan of those of us who are slogging towards our own end.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

So you know, just be sweet, be honest, be ask, be curious.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Yeah, exactly. And I, you know, I've been involved in in end-of-life like wakes and uh uh gatherings after a funeral, and um many times one of the things that happens in there is you start talking about the people that have gone that have that have died, and you you start remembering the incredible fun times you had or the the silliest stuff that ever happened, and those can really lift the spirits of everybody involved. And just um, in fact, nowadays with with the made um medical aid and dying or some of the death with dignity things, people are having these before they die for themselves. And I over and over again when I've been involved in this, it's about let's laugh, you know, let's think about how much joy and how much fun we had together and how silly I can be and how goofy and let's sing some songs, let's do some dances, let's just enjoy ourselves, you know. And so I think it again it comes back to how much joy we can find in the day, even when things are overwhelming. And in fact, when things are overwhelming, it can be a balance, like you said, Sam. It can be a when it gets tense and difficult to kind of take a breath and just kind of laugh at yourself. Sometimes that's the best one, you know. What the heck am I doing?

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

And I and I think Anna Luisa, what what you said is really important too, to not get prescriptive about joy and not not give the impression that if you can't access it that there's something wrong, yeah, or that you need that as part of your medicine in the grief process. Sometimes it's not time. Sometimes it's you know, it's time to be in the heavy and and to sit in that in that solitude or that that just and hold that that peace exactly for what you were saying, to move through it so that it doesn't stick around forever.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Right. You know, I just uh I was on my Instagram yesterday or the day before, and I I think I saved it, but then I don't remember why the the algorithm rhythm fed it to me, but I it talked about you could the the thing that you do before the evening is you have a journal entry and you write about the following day with all of its details. So you know, Monday night I sit down and I write my journal entry for Tuesday, and Tuesday says actually like let's say Monday, Sunday night to Monday. You know, I spent time with Sam and Joaquille, and we had such joyous times. Like you you you you orient your whole self to have these special interactions with the next day, the people in your life, and maybe it is really hard on Sunday night, and really Sunday night just feels like it's been such a dismal day, and I've done nothing but barely eat, sit on my sofa, and then move to my couch, and then finally I'm in bed now with my sheets unmade, and I just want to just sleep forever. And maybe my invitation to you is you know, start a journal, grab a notebook, even if it's already started before, just don't worry about it, and just write tomorrow. I will get up. I will try to be up and hear the bird song before the sun comes up, you know. I will try to have a bite to eat, and hopefully it'll be really tasty. Maybe you know, you have a chocolate stashed in a drawer somewhere, pull it out, leave it on the counter so that tomorrow that sweetness will be a part of your story. And you know, I haven't been able to talk to anybody, but you know, tomorrow maybe I will just text one person and it'll just be like, I'm still here. That's all I have to say. I'm just still here. I can't say anything else, but I'm still here. But you know, I I want you to go through grief, and I understand grief is so imperative to our human experience, and you need to sustain yourself as you live through these days and add sweetness to it. So you know, this little journaling thing, I think I want to do it is I need to remind myself that tomorrow I'm gonna manifest beautiful things.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

So yeah, I love that setting that intention. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely has an impact. Yeah. So we uh yeah, so we encourage everyone to think about ways that you can lift up the joy and uh beauty in your life and help others to do the same and share that information and share it with us.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Join us on Substack and join our chat and tell us some ideas that you've come up with. We'd love to hear from you. And uh subscribe and like and be our friend and tell all your friends and all of the above. Yeah, so thanks you guys. Appreciate you as always. Appreciate on the audience.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Enjoy till next time.