SPEAKER_01 0:00

Well, we've met and spoken with LGBTQ folks and their families. And we recognize it can be a struggle to care for their children to identity sometimes. And it can become overwhelming when they also have to deal with addiction or other issues. There's often a lack of information on how to navigate those struggles. In this episode, we get to have to consider how parents can support LGBTQ. LGBTQ youth when addiction, rejection, or other serious struggles after the picture. We get to meet Wesley C. Davidson, and she joins us for an honest conversation about LGBTQ youth, addiction, parental support, and the complicated emotions families often carry when a child comes out.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

That's right. Drawing from her personal family experience of losing her child to addiction and her work in helping parents understand LGBTQ issues, Wesley explores what parents need to know, how rejection and isolation can affect LGBTQ youth, and why open communication and acceptance matter so deeply. This is a conversation about LGBTQ parenting, about addiction, family support, grief, and the importance of making sure young people do not have to face difficult experiences alone. I hope you'll join us.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Greetings, everyone, and thank you for listening in at the End of Life Conversations. Today we are honored to meet and talk with Wesley C. Davidson. Wesley is a journalist and co-author of When Your Child Is Gay, What You Need to Know. Having lost a 33-year-old son to a drug overdose, she now concentrates her writing on the topic of addiction. She has written about addiction issues for psychology today, Ravishly, and Med Shadow. All of these will be found in our podcast notes, and you can follow the links to read them there. And she also has takes some time and speaks about substance use on her YouTube channel, and that will also be linking in the podcast notes.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah. Well, and I'm the Reverend Joaquill David Matthews, and um and that was Anna Luisa Armanderas, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

I know.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Oops.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

She uh Wesley started the Facebook group Kids on Drugs, Signs, Risks, and How to Get Help. And she has blogs when your child is addicted.com and straightparent, LGBTQkid.com, both found on our website, which we'll link to in the podcast notes. Um, she's a member of the American Society of Journalists and Authors and the Authors Guild. She and her husband live in Florida. So glad to have you with us today, Wesley.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Welcome. Yes. And we generally start out with our first question to our guests, and we want to know what inspired you to do your work?

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Well, what inspired me to do the work was the fact that uh we lost our son. And we lost him in 2016, which is the year that my book came out, When Your Child Is Gay, What You Need to Know. And uh my son had been sober often on since middle school. Uh we didn't realize that he was taking uh vodka from our house and his adderall, which uh was prescribed by the school, he had um ADD, attention deficit disorder, and it was suggested he take that medication. And we think he was uh selling his Ritalin at school along with cocaine. Now we didn't realize that, but his sister, who is six years younger, five years younger, uh he told her what he was doing. And of course, uh uh we weren't privy to that information. So um we thought uh this cleaning crew that had come into our house were the ones that were uh drinking the vodka because they would come in with bloodshot eyes. And my husband thought he had out foxed the cleaning crew by marking off on the vodka label how it was dwindling, but it was actually our son that was taking the vodka to school. So uh as I said, Graham started in middle school with uh, you know, illicit drugs, selling them, using them. There were times when he was sober, and uh he moved to California three different times, and I think he felt more at ease there because he was gay, there was a large gay community, but in that community there was a lot of crystal meth uh stimulants, and of course he would uh use those. And uh when he died, uh he had been hanging out with people that were using drugs, and um I did have a very nice conversation with him in June, which is when my book was published, my book, When Your Child Is Gay. And he sounded sober, he sounded good, upbeat, you know, mom, I'm so proud of you, and this will help a lot of people. And uh, you know, I hope it makes the bestseller list. Of course, it never did, but uh anyway, that was a month before he died. And uh we think the people that he was with, we were on the East Coast, he was on the West Coast, uh had given him some drugs that he started uh at the same dose that he was on before, and which is a bad thing to do. And he immediately had a heart attack, and these heartless people uh we think stole his good watch and ran out of the building, leaving his front door open to his apartment. So we, you know, we came uh shortly thereafter to pick up the pieces and clean up the mess that was there. And uh but um, you know, it's it's been a journey since then, really. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Well, I am so sorry for your loss. Well, thank you. And what a uh what a story to share. Like the the your bravery can hopefully be a salve to other parents who are also on the same journey.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah. Yeah. So appreciated and so so much, so much courage. We really appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, yeah, why don't you tell us a little more about the current work you're doing, the the most recent books or anything that, you know, just basically doing and what well I started out, you know, I had a actually an art history degree from college in New York, but uh I worked at an art gallery and I would write press releases for them.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

And this snowballed into other freelance work, which was advertising copy, articles. Um and when I found out my son was gay, he never told me, but I found out through a letter that I found. And at that point, we were living in the suburbs. If there were other gay students like he, uh, you didn't know about it. It was, you're talking, it was 1990s, and uh because he was born in 83. And so I decided that I was gonna look at books at Barnes and Noble's, maybe I'd get some help, advice, what to do. And um I couldn't find anything, and what I found were uh, you know, a couple of sentences alluding to what they called homosexuals, and of course, that uh diagnosis was taken out of the DSM, you know, the diagnostic uh manual for psychiatrists in the 70s. So uh I thought, well, I can write a book. So I was lucky. I paired up with a psychiatrist who happened to be gay, and we wrote this book together where I interviewed um LGBTQ people who had trouble uh coming to terms with their sexual orientation. And also uh I interviewed parents who it would take them a while to come around to totally accepting their kids. And then at the end of each chapter, um, like for example, we had a chapter called Denial, uh the psychiatrists would give advice. I might give suggestions, but I'm not a psychiatrist, so I can't give advice. So, and we wrote the book, and uh, you know, I think it was helpful. And I think in this uh day and age, right now, particularly, uh, it's still applicable. Yeah. In fact, I was at a gay pride thing a few weeks ago, and I was selling the same book that was written in 2016. Now I am focusing on addiction. And um, as uh Dr. David uh mentioned, um I am uh I have a blog which is on WesleyCullenDavidson.com, but um I am finding a large connection between the gay community and the use of illicit drugs, substance abuse, really a disproportionate um uh usage. So I'm interested in that, and also um there's so much addiction going on now, as you know. And you know, they're finding new drugs every day, and of course, even with marijuana, it's uh producing psychosis and people that use it every day, and it's uh 30 times stronger than what they had in the 60s. So um I'm doing a lot of research, and uh I'm also trying to find uh an MD, an addiction MD, to comment. Um but right now I'm in the research stage with that, which I find very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

And um we we've had others on our podcast, it seems to be a thing where they have some kind of loss and they go looking for something to help and they don't find it, and so they create it. And I love that again. This is another example of of you taking that on and saying, you know, that I can't find what I need, so maybe I'll make it.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm finding, at least uh with my research, I'm finding that addiction is a brain disease, it's not a moral failing. Um and that it does have a high rate of relapse, but it's not impossible to get sober and stay sober. Um, and I think with our son, um he was adopted and uh he was adopted at age five months. We never had medical uh background on him because it was a closed adoption. And I think because he went from an agency to several foster parents before he came to us permanently, that he may have suffered some trauma there. Yeah, yeah. And also he could have had uh predisab predisposition for uh substance abuse. You you just don't know if you don't have any medical background. So um I think those two things uh uh weighed on him.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

Sure. Contributed, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I it sounds like you're researching your book. It's the new one for about addiction. It's kind of like it's a leapfrogging from your son's experience to the first book, and now we're doing the second book. What are the challenges that you're finding as you're doing the second project?

SPEAKER_03 14:39

Um, well, one of the uh challenges uh is finding an addiction MD who uh wants to spend the time to comment in every chapter and hopefully um do some social media with me. Uh because uh it's important nowadays to uh, you know, do podcasts, get your name out there and uh and write articles on the topic, you know, at hand. And um so it's it's important to do that.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

And also, um, you know, you you've got to spend the time to do all this. And I don't have other children at home. Uh Graham has a sister who's five years younger, who I mention. Uh she's married and lives in South Carolina, so I'm not waiting for the school bus every day at three o'clock. You know, my time is basically my own. But um, you know, finding the time. And I try to keep abreast of what's going on in the world. I read three newspapers a day, and I'm reading other books on this topic. And I don't want my book just to be a memoir. I want it to be a little bit different with advice in it. Um, and so uh, you know, I'm I'm busy doing all that. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

That's a challenge. Yeah, we just we're just talking about the I I wonder about other challenges though. Have you had anybody push back on the the uh ideas you've brought forward in in your book on um having a gay child? Has anybody been uh antagonistic toward you or you know toward the work?

SPEAKER_03 16:53

No, I think because of the climate now and the fact that um our president uh is uh very uh vocal about you know like what constitutes uh a male and a female. It's what you have on your birth certificate. That upsets especially the trans uh generation and all the uh uh fuss over bathrooms and you know sports and all that. I I think the time is very ripe for my book. Uh so uh as I say, it's it's uh it's not going out of style. It's an evergreen, what they call an evergreen book.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

So evergreen story, yeah. It's good to know.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Because I, you know, there are certainly people who um we've had experience with who um just don't want to hear this, you know, don't want to talk about it, don't want to hear about it, don't don't want to believe there is such a thing.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

So well, I think uh in the South it's more so yeah. Um we lived outside of New York City for 25 years.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

So um so you notice the difference when you're down now that you're in Florida?

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Well, I think it depends uh who you're with. Um you know, um there are people um who are uh uh you know very right wing who who would have a problem with it.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

So um part of your crowd, yeah. Yeah. Um so having gone through this with your son and of course doing the research that you're doing and the work, um, I can imagine other examples came up as you're doing the research and talking to people. Do you have any fear yourself around the end of life, around dying?

SPEAKER_03 18:59

Um, I don't. I'm Episcopalian, and you know, I think uh you go when you're supposed to go. I think, you know, with Graham, it was um obviously awful to die so young.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

And I often wonder if he would have turned around and done the work to become sober for a long time. Uh but his sister said something I thought was wise to me. She said, Mom, Graham didn't want to do the work to get sober and stay sober. She's right. So, but it uh sometimes distresses me to uh see uh kids who are uh sons or daughters of my friends uh who I know were doing drugs, even selling drugs, and they have turned around and now are leading productive lives. I wish my son had done that. Sure. And it's um, you know, when you get Christmas cards with these families that are beaming, and uh, you know, it's hard to see an intact family when you've lost a child, I think.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

And you know, I just also want to um, I mean, I listened to your story and how we don't know what actually happened, right? And in this day and age when, you know, my kids and I carry Narcan and we are training other people to make sure, like if you see an overdose to like step in and actually help out, you know, we don't know if your son would have gotten sober. And that in that moment just was it got out of hand for somebody somewhere, right? Like you just don't know. And I, in my heart, uh, I feel your love for him. And, you know, I hope other mothers out there can continue to love their children in spite of you know, kind of the choices that they make as they go along in life. And, you know, we hope for the best. We hope for pockets of Narcan for those who are ODing or no more strange drugs we don't know, you know. Um, so yeah, it's we care, we really do. And and I'm sure it's just so hard when you're so you're you know working with so many different levels of of identity, right? Like coming out as gay and adopted, and you know, there's something else that it's like making me a little uneven. So I appreciate that you're digging deep into this this topic because it is not an easy book for for you to be you know writing and people who are experiencing. Experiencing this, who probably does jump in and read with you.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Yeah. Well, I hope it will help. And the other thing I have found that um I wish people would be more empathetic with uh parents who have lost kids. Uh I I had a bunch of letters written to my husband and I after Graham died, condolence letters, mask cards, letters. It after that, uh people were not calling. Wesley, how do you feel?

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Uh you know, it just dropped.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

A few, a few are, you know, still uh very caring, but for the majority, no. And I think people should be uh should learn that it's okay to ask somebody who's lost a son, how are you feeling?

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

Because you're obviously your life's been changed.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah. Update.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

And always and always will be.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

But I remember when I was growing up in the 50s, uh you never asked somebody about cancer, how are you feeling, or about diabetes. Uh it was like it was a moral failing. And I think people feel that if they really ask me how I am, it's going to upset me. But it I think it it works in reverse. I think it's more upsetting not to be asked.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Well I read an article by a woman whose son had died, and she said, What I would love most is if people would come up and ask me about him. Tell ask me to tell them stories about him because that keeps him alive. And that I mean that keeps it that hard, you know.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

So well, we all, yeah, we laugh about things that Graham has said and that because he was very witty, and that, you know, that helps and it does keep him alive. Um, but I think I do think it's good to talk. I mean, if Graham had died from, let's say, diabetes, they would say, oh, that's so terrible.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

And there's a hierarchy of deaths right around your children. It's uh it's a it's a moral failing of how certain children die. Yeah. And you know, it it does get reflected on how we continue to support family members who are grieving, you know, and and struggling through wanting to stay connected to people, but having this wall, this barrier from people, like I don't think I the assumption you don't want to talk about it or the recognition in themselves that they can't handle that.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

And um, but I I think that's important. And whenever people ask me, how many children do you have, I always say I have two. I have my daughter who's married, who lives in South Carolina, and I have a son who died. Yeah, beautiful. But and that's the truth. I mean, yeah. So that's right. Uh, and they'll say, Oh, I'm sorry for your loss. And that's not that I want to uh you know burden people with uh my story after I've just met them, but um it it's awkward, it is awkward, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Yeah, exactly. Well let's normalize on this podcast about how important it is for all of us to be more aware, and you know, even in that case, if you just met somebody to say, Oh, that you know, besides that the thing everybody says, you know, sorry for your loss, to actually say, Well, tell me more about that person in your life. And yeah, because that is not that's a different way of coming to it and a more compassionate and thoughtful way of being with people who've had loss. And there's so much loss, so much grief, and you could almost spend all day, every day asking about other stories, and and that's such a better way of treating this than than just shy away. But you know, it it is it's a fear we all have, or a constriction around it, or whatever. So yeah, that's part of what we're doing here. And so I appreciate your story and and and letting us have another another example of how important it is.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

That's right. Yeah. Uh well, Kil, is it my turn or your turn?

SPEAKER_01 26:50

I think it's your turn.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

And so I'm gonna go with how how do you doing this heavy emotional labor of researching and writing and trying to find folks to comment on this uh research that you're doing, how do you keep yourself feeling capable of showing up the next day to continue this work? How do you resource yourself?

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Well, some days are better than others. Like yesterday would have been uh the day that Graham actually died. And rather than trying to be maudlin about it, I'm a big tennis fan. So I put myself in front of the TV and I watched Wimbledon all day. And it was a way to get out of not only do I love tennis, but it's a way to get me from thinking of a sad, very sad day.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Yeah. So yeah, there's lots of ways of coping. I love that. That's a good one. I don't think we've heard that one before.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

No, I know. It's like note to self, Wimbledon.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Unfortunately, Wimbledon's over. That was the final day. But yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

That's a great thing. Well, is there anything you wish we would have asked you that you'd like to share with us before we finish up here?

SPEAKER_03 28:19

Um I well, as I mentioned, I would uh encourage people to uh be more empathetic and ask parents uh uh how they're feeling. And I mean, I'm on uh Facebook groups and uh some of the things these poor parents have gone on make my tragedy look like nothing. I mean, some of the m kids were murdered, yeah. Uh some committed suicide. Uh we don't think Graham committed suicide. It was an accidental overdose, but um no, uh or you know, car accidents where two children died in the family, you know, not just one. Um so I think that's important, and I just would like uh friends and uh people to be more demonstrative in their caring.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's so important. And of course, there are any addiction MDs out there in our audience, get a hold of us.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Yes. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Well, uh, thanks so much. This has been really a wonderful conversation. We really appreciate you. Oh, thank you. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

And we've got a poem. We've got two poems though, but should we read one of them, both of them? How would you like to Do you like to read them?

SPEAKER_03 29:59

Well, why don't you read them? Do you mind doing that? There's John Dunn, that one. Yeah, and then there's another one I sent.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Mary Elizabeth Fry. I'll read the first one and you read the second one.

unknown 30:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Is that Raquel?

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

All right. This is Do Not Stand at My Grave and Weep by Mary Elizabeth Fry. I am a thousand winds that blow. I am the diamond glitz on snow. I am the sunlight on ripened grain. I am the gentle autumn's rain. When you awakened in the morning's hush, I am the swift, uplifting rush of quiet birds in circled flight. I am the soft stars that shine at night. Do not stand at my grave and cry. I am not there. I did not die.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Ah I am the soft stars that shine at night, do not say. Oh that's so good. And John Don says um no man is an island entire of itself. Each is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor or thine own, or if thine friends were. Each man's diminishes me, for I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for me. Yeah, I agree. That's yeah, good reminder.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

I do, I yeah, I remember that from junior high, so I'm like, oh, I really enjoyed this. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing this with us. Well, your story. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Thank you for joining us today. Thank you to Charles Eastan, the composer of the original music you are listening to now.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

And of course, thank you, our audience, and all of our amazing guests. We'll come back next week for another great episode of Share This with your friends, family, and community. We hope you will subscribe and follow us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Podcast, and Twitter. And of course, if you have a code and a five story to share us, we're always here to work on that.