SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello, and welcome back to End of Life Conversations with the Reverend Ana Luisa Edmundadis and my dearest the Reverend Joaquill. So good to be here. So good to be back at our weekly, what is it? Our weekly missives?

SPEAKER_01 0:15

A weekly week. Dispatches? Dispatch, yeah. Dispatch.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Dispatches from the other side. Well, today we are going to do a little something different for our listeners because I am going through my own personal crises. And I'm going to share this with everybody who listens, who checks in on us. Sam's mom. I have just returned from a 10-day trip to go take my son to California for college searching. And it's, you know, it's a time that many people have encountered with their own children, or even if the kids aren't going to college, there is a shift that happens when we're in relationship with our children or even community members who leave and move around. But there is a shift. And uh I have had the pleasure, displeasure of being with uh my son who also lives with his dad and has formed himself in the way that he reflects back to me a lot of aspects of his father, which for 10 days was very hard to sit with.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

And so, you know, I came back from this trip and I had a conversation with Joaquil uh last week about how distressed and it just really I just got cracked open for a myriad of reasons. And I don't, I can't, I'm and I'm not gonna want to categorize ever all the reasons. Yeah. And for a hot second I said, well, maybe this is my midlife crisis, you know, the the time when you just get crushed by your child and you just you just wake up and you're like, who am I? What what am I doing? Where have I been? Where am I going? And so while Keila and I talked about this as a form of I am in crises, I in spite of the fact that I smile and I show up. I have been weeping. For those of you who have been on our podcast for years, know that I'm very not a weeper, and I've started like crying at the drop of a hat and just seeping tears, which I'm not holding back. So but you know, grief hits us, and right now I think the grief that I'm sitting with is the disappointment that I have not fully grown into the potentially the the soul that I was called to be on in this timeline.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

And, you know, feeling the questions, even as I'm asking my and you know, sharing with my son, like, you know, find the place that makes you feel good. You know, you don't have to choose anything specific. And being really supportive on his path, I realized that I turned it around for myself and was like, where do you want to be? What do you want to be doing? Who are you? What's what's important? What's the value? And I realized that like I'm not living my full truth. Like, yeah. And it makes me really upset. It's been making me feel crushed and despair. I actually I just feel like, what are we doing? What are we doing here?

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Well, I so appreciate that, and I so appreciate your vulnerability and willingness to share with me, of course. And um, we we've we've been doing this for years. So, but sharing it here on the podcast, I think is a real service because so many people are without a doubt, are going through or have gone through. There's so much going on right now that we're that we feel out of control. We feel like we can't be enough, we can't do enough. Um, I was I was thinking back on times in my life when I just kind of had to, you know, take a really hard look at where I was in my life and and and uh just realizing how unconnected, disconnected I was to what I really wanted to be doing and when I really wanted to be serving, serving how I wanted to be living my life, just like you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Um when I uh at the end of my career in computer security, I had been working in the corporate world and I was just I hated it. I literally hated it. And uh everything about it was bad. I mean, I loved the people I worked with, I loved, I kinda, you know, I enjoyed the the it was fun work in a lot of ways, and I learned a lot. And I just, like I said, the people were amazing, most of them, except for the bosses. I mean, the bosses, you know, I don't know if anybody else has experienced this in the corporate world, but my experience was the um immediate management was sociopathic and the overhead management was psychopathic. I mean, yeah, you know, almost to a T. There were a few different people like, I mean, the guy that hired me was a dear friend and was really a great, wonderful guy, but then they immediately reorganized and it was a sociopath, you know. Um but all that just really led me to a moment in my life where I was compelled to really, you know, look at myself and say, Why am I doing this? What what is what should I be doing? What am what is my calling? And that was really I actually went to a uh spiritual retreat and one of the concentrations was what is your calling? And wow, that broke me open. That broke me open. And I think there were a lot of days that just like you, I felt like I was I was I was raw. I was wide open, I was raw, and I had no idea what I was doing or why, and I was crying a lot myself and just um retreating, um escaping. Um it had a very, very um big impact on our on my marriage, and it was really hard for a while, and we were both going through a lot, I think. And so anyway, yeah, I hear you, and um thank you for sharing that. And so tell us more. What what do you think is the next thing gonna happen, or what yeah, what else is in your heart right now?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Well, and you know, I we you and I talked about a lot of this on Friday, and um and I've had the weekend too, but I could still think more about it. And one of the the the pieces for me that was very apparent is uh I want to be forming safe space so that I can truly be myself. And that is uh for some of you who know, like my daughter has health issues, so you know there's a lot of pieces to my own life that it has to shift because of how we manage her health safety, and you know, that is that is hard. That is very hard. And so for the folks out there who are have kids with disabilities or going through you know very charged health times, like it it it's also it's it you don't get to be you because you're taking care of someone else or an elder who is you know going through things that you need to be more protective about. And and so how does that reflect on who I am? How do I get to still be true to myself whilst also being supportive of someone else? You know, and like I mentioned at the beginning, my son lives with his father, and I I was heartbroken that all the ways that I mask around my ex-husband is happening to me again with my son. I have to like shut things down because my whimsy irritates them.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

And that's one of the parts I love.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yeah, I just realized my family is not into my whimsy, man. Oof. They are not, they're not team Ana Luisa for sure. So, you know, uh it's also very stressful for folks who are young and moving into this world. It is a excuse my French, my English, but so fucking hard right now.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

I can't imagine being a teenager or a young adult in early 20s navigating the construct of your world, trying to kind of emerge into it as uh a fledgling, right? Setting out to get into the world and make your little nest and you know be true to your calling in life. Um we went through California and I just I just felt like so sad too. I mean, I realized like the climate change, we're all kind of just moving around pretending it's not happening. And you know, I felt also very disturbed by my like we we hired a van and we drove around and I was like, I'm part of the problem right now, like driving a diesel van. And uh I in my mind I was thinking, this is the last time I probably will see California because unless you know we get a safer way for us to be moving around and supporting local people with their environmental pieces. I went, we spent two nights in Redwood Forests and I just had to hug them and just say, Yeah, I know you're thirsty and I know you're tired and I know you're dry. And I'm yeah, I I see you like it just hurts me so deeply, right? So uh there's the there's that climate grief that is occurring with me a week ago, just uh the heat, uh, the animals that we saw who were struggling. We saw some kind of sickly birds, we saw a lot of dead birds, and I just there's some books that I've read in the last few years. It's very dystopian. And I'm like, why are we all just still kind of pretending that life is normal? You know, and I'm trying to be normal for my kid, and yet I think he knows too, like it's hard. Sure, sure, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

I think, yeah, I think everybody, everybody's feeling that, you know, it's like it's we've talked about this um when people die in our lives and we look around and say, how can everybody still be doing what they're doing? You know, how can this still be uh getting up from people? Yeah, how can people be driving down the street when my mom just died, you know? And if and it feels like that deep inside a lot, um, because the earth is dying, you know, or the the earth is suffering. I don't know if it's dying, maybe, maybe, maybe not dying, but suffering and um and in pain, and you can feel it if you if you open yourself to it. Um and we, you know, as lovers of the planet, lovers of each of the the everything. The web of life. Yeah, the divine. Um if we you know, we I guess in a way we the reason we keep acting normal is because otherwise we'd just be laying on the ground screaming all the time, you know, because it's so it's so deep, it's so heavy, it's so hard. Um and uh yeah, so I guess part of what this conversation is about is is um acknowledging that we feel that pain and that we feel that suffering. And uh in our own lives, sometimes where that where that rises up is like, what am I doing? And and is this am I really being as much of service as I can be? And you mentioned the word local, I love that, because you know, the the um the idea of supporting each other on a multi or on a like a micro-local level, you know, um mutual aid kind of groups is one that you know we read a lot about. There's some really great books out there about that. And I think given that the planet can't sustain itself in the way we're living right now, um that's gonna end up being all that's left at some point. And so the more we can do now to create those communities and those local groups of people helping each other in every way. I just saw, you know, with all the fires that are going on, I just read an article about insurance companies are um pulling out of areas because they're a fire danger. And that makes a lot of sense, you know. I can I wouldn't want to be there if I was an insurance company. Of course, those guys are stealing lots of money and I don't really really uh honor them very much. But but again, I've often wondered if there wouldn't be a way, and I'm pretty sure there I've heard of ways that we could be um do mutual aid local insurance, you know, like just support each other uh locally, create a local group of people that that's how insurance started after all. Exactly. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Small groups of community members who were trying to make sure everybody got taken care of if something happens.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

So maybe again, you know, all of these things that we count on the insurance, the food, the um lifestyles of water, all the things that shelter, if we could find a way to be more supportive in our local community, yeah, maybe that would be a way.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

I'm gonna also say that uh one of so I need to tell you this, but um I I took my son to Berkeley. We would be headed, and we stayed, I think it was a block and a half from where you and I met at seminary.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Oh, wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

And so I was exactly, oh no. And I told my son, oh, this is where we'd come over for French fries after class. And uh we'd all sit around those tables and discuss what we had been going through for the day. And I um, but the hotel that we stayed at was this tiny little hotel. And I got up really early and I had my coffee, and all these elders started kind of appearing and you know, pulling chairs, and there were like eight people around a little table. And of course, I said hello, and of course, like I don't even know. I think within like three minutes we were talking about our podcast and duck and time.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

We can't help ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

We just can't, but you know, uh, this gentleman is um he, you know, he he took a picture of my phone when I brought up end of life conversations, and and you know, we I ended up spending like two hours sitting there with the the the myriad of people who would come by, say their good mornings, drink their coffees, head on out. And at one point my son came down and shout out to Rick, I got his name, who was wearing his kafaya and his Palestine hat, and he had just he showed up and he was chatty, and he spoke to my son, and he spoke to my son as like a respected and respectful elder. He respected Seoul, he respected the path and spoke into it, and I realized like what a treasure that moment for me is because as a mom, my voice is not as interesting as you know, friends and neighbors. And yeah, speaking about mutual aid, I think that having people be brave enough to step into a stranger's life and just respectfully and honestly and delightedly like share their lives was really wonderful. Like he told us like how we ended up in college, he was a conscientious objector, and his dad was a Navy uh officer, and so there was a lot of you know conflict there and friction. And and you know, I just when I when I we ended up seeing him twice, we saw him at the end of the day, and I just thought that is what I want more of in my life, like others willing to speak into my life, my my little family's life, and you know, and speak to and speak to important subjects and not be talking about you know the water, the water and the rain or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Um I I mean I love that too. I just came back from a spiritual camp, you know, where where everybody you meet, you know, you smile and you got that heart connection and and you sit down and you have a conversation about love and compassion and caring for each other and caring about the earth and um these deep important conversations that um and and that's not strangers, but the the idea that you could do that in every day, like that's maybe one of the reactions or or ways to uh address this sense of brokenheartedness um that and and broken openness is that we we we notice when we're walking around in the world. And this is, you know, I I think I've said this before on the podcast, my prayer every day is to how can I be a service? And part of that is just opening to what's going on with this human being I'm in touch with right now. Um, and you know, why are they angry or why are why are they weeping, or why are they just looking uh start staring off into the sky and being willing to be vulnerable and open and brave, courageous enough to to connect. Yeah, that's like you said, that that's that's a kind of mutual aid, local help that we can do for each other and that everybody needs.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Everybody needs it, you know, it's interesting that you mentioned that because going back to Berkeley brought up a lot of my memories too.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Because my I was in class, I think two weeks after my sister died.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

I remember, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

We had a class one afternoon where I just grief just took over. I I just couldn't do a class, sit there and pre- and again, you know, it's that moment of like I don't I have like cognitive dissonance around. I my sister's gone and I'm sitting in class talking about I don't know what it was, you know, spirituality and sexuality. I don't know. It was just like, you know, some random class. And yeah, um, I left.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

You remember you left and didn't come back for a while.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

I didn't come back, and and I and I had I had planned on coming back, yeah, and I wound up, I can't even describe where I went, but I walked all over Berkeley and I was and I just the only thing I think if I look at myself in that moment, I was bawling like a calf. I was walking down the street crying, like openly crying, openly, like just sobbing, and not a single human being wanted to see me. Everybody like cleared away, crossed the street, averted their eyes. Which, you know, I wasn't expecting anybody to swing by and give me a hug, but wouldn't it have been lovely?

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yes. Wouldn't that have been amazing?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

If somebody would have stopped and said, Hey, what's going on? What can I do for you?

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah. No, it's just and so Yeah, we could do that. I mean, I do that. I sometimes, you know, like I am at this stop in uh actually I have another story to tell you. LA leaving at four in the morning uh or last night, and we're in a lift heading to the airport. It's all quiet. Driver, my son is on his headphones, whatever. But I'm looking out the window, and there is a woman sleeping on a park bench, and there's a man who is like sussing out her stuff and who she is. He's like literally like just peering around her. And I was like upset because I could you could visibly see it's a woman and it's a man, and I felt a little protective of her.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

And so right as the car started pulling away, I rolled out my window and I yelled, uh, uh, get away from her, like really loud. And the guy like turned around and did this, and he raised his arms and he didn't know where the voice came from, and he's just like looking around. And the driver says, Wow, that was a good call. He's like, I was watching it too. And the piece that surprised me was that he didn't say anything.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Right? He's watching it all play out too, but he doesn't say, Give me a second, we need to figure this out. Yeah. Which is if I were driving, I'd be like, we're stopping.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

We need a minute here, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

So, you know, I feel like so many people just literally stare, rubber neck the accidents of all of us walking down the street, but are not brave enough to just stop and say, Are you okay? Yeah, can I do something for you? Yeah. I see that you're crying. Like, you know, and I I could easily say, like, you know, my sister just died, I'm just grieving. And somebody could say, I'm really sorry for your loss. Like, be safe, have some water, whatever. It doesn't need to be a big deal, but nobody wants to see any of us as we're in the moment. Nobody wants to watch the trees dying. Nobody wants to like witness these animals who are struggling. Where are the birds? Where are the ants? Like, everybody, like, nobody wants to stop and say, This is not okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's uncomfortable. And, you know, it's because I think another thing is it it triggers reactions in ourselves about all our own pain and suffering. You know, we don't want to look at that. That's why we're walking around with our head in the no in our phones, you know. Um, you know, and I I was thinking the other day as the ash was c blocking the sun, you know, that's right. This this this is these are the remains of animals, plants, trees. Um, the earth is, you know, um, even maybe humans, you know. Um that are floating around here just to remind us that, you know, don't forget that this is going on, you know. And uh Um and as painful as that is, uh, it's again, it's a way to not just ignore it, but to stop and and acknowledge that yeah, this is we're we're witnessing the um dissolution of this this um unsustainable culture that we've created uh in the skies, blocking the sun. Um and something deeply symbolic and horrible about that, you know. But again, it don't don't look away, you know.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Don't look away, but you know, it's interesting as you say that because I think the three of us, Sam and you and I talked a couple of episodes ago about collective grief rituals. And you know, when these are happening, who's brave enough to say, hey, let's go sit in the ash and name who might be in it?

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Right? Like collectively, publicly acknowledge, acknowledge the loss of both land and you know, fauna and you know, the people's lives who are you know torn apart from fires.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Yeah, yeah, thousands of people, yeah. Yeah, wow, that's a that's an incredible thought and idea, something I'm gonna definitely do at this point. I mean, right now we're in clear skies for the first time in a few days, but um in Oregon when we were at this camp, it was it was unhealthy levels, you know. And it's interesting to think about that, you know, just like uh again, the metaphor. It's unhealthy to be out in this uh and and it's unhealthy for us to have the earth be at this point and the the planet be at this stage where it's um burning up, it's falling apart, it's you know, literally dissolving in front of us in front of our eyes. Yeah, um, yeah, but to put on our masks and go sit in a circle and honor all of the parts that are floating around us was that's an incredibly uh amazing idea. I think it's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

It's a good one, and you know, it just brings me back to the um I went to Dachau and Auschwitz many, many, many years ago. Yeah, and there was a little tiny piece somewhere I read on some, you know, flyer or whatever, but the local communities outside of these concentration camps would smell the people, would would see the ash as well, and they knew what was happening, but they were just like no, no, no, no, no, right? Yeah, and so imagine the amount of trauma that it's like not it's like being like dumped, not dumped, but it's being accumulated in our spirits as we are just not acknowledging what is actually happening around us.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, somebody I just saw um a meme where somebody was had next to the picture of people outside of Dachau who, you know, it was like an air, air picture. So Dachau's here and the people are living here, right? And um the people are just going about their lives, you know, and choosing not to pay attention to that. And next to that was a picture of a suburban United States place next door to a ICE detention center.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Um, and it's not different, you know. Um they're not burning them, obviously, but they are starving them and they are killing them. And um uh and they're treating them like shit, and they don't deserve to be there. And they're our brothers and sisters. And um so yeah, I mean, again, we can't look away. Um well and uh although on the other hand, I don't I don't judge you or judge anyone for needing to look away and to just take time and to be you know centered, and but that's the best way we can be a part of the solution is to take time for ourselves, get grounded, get centered, and then step back in and don't stop right working to change it in whatever way we can.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Well, and uh to your point about not looking away from these attention centers too, it's like you may not be the person who could. I just read an article this morning from people who are driving to Hudson, Colorado, which is 45 minutes away from here, too, uh, you know, to talk about this new ICE detention center that is trying to be formed.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

And I thought, oh my gosh, there's no way I could do that. Like I would want to, but I that's a lot of chunk of time driving and being out of my house that I can't really do these days. And but what I would suggest if you if you are ready to look, but you can't do the the the closest to the the action, support those who are in the action. Yeah, right. Send a jug of water and some sandwiches and say, here, this is for you to take care of yourself as you're doing the holy work, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

You know, do whatever we can I feel like and even I want to be doing more of my part for small pieces because yeah, well, because it's important for all of us to constantly be coming, getting back in the in the fray and helping out.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

In whatever way we can, yeah. I mean, when I was younger, you know, back like back in those days that I was talking about, where I started thinking I needed to do something different. Um and I and I really did deeply open up to that and ended up in seminary. That's where I met you, you know. Um but there were times then, you know, there and nowadays especially I'd say this is true because I've um where you know I wonder about the futility of marching, you know, or the futility. I I still go and sing, you know, and lit lift my voice and raise my voice sometimes. But I also know that there are times that I feel like I just again, like you said, just need to support people in whatever way I can. Um, you know, I can send money or I can, like you said, send food or it's it's you know, it's the same thing as when somebody's grieving and you don't go up to them and say, How can I help you? You go up and say, Here's a sandwich, you know. Uh you know, it's exactly the same. And you you've you understand what is actually needed, what you would need in that space, and you give it to them, you know, you just you deliver it to them. Maybe you go and say, I know you want to go to this protest today, can I watch your kids for you? You know, or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

And and so, or can it just, you know, is there something or I mean, and some I mean, so first of all, some protests feel futile because futile because the police are called to help out. So I'm like, that's not really a protest. Um uh but the other piece, you know, is if you can't support the in some of the myriad ways, you could also give a phone number and say, hey, if anything happens, put write your my phone number on your arm and I'll help you figure stuff out. Because I, you know, I need those kind of people in my life. Like, can I call you?

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's milli many ways. I think all of us and all of you on in the audience can probably think of your own ways. We'd love to hear from you, by the way. Um, so you know, join our sub stack and uh get involved in our chat there.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Um yeah and talk about your grief.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Yeah, tell us about what's what's going on with you.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Yeah, and and how are you addressing the climate grief that you have or the the concerns about your path or uh you know your your midlife or middle end of life crisis, you know, wherever you might be. Yeah. So we'd love to hear from you and um really appreciate all of you out there and thank you so much. Please subscribe, tell all your friends and like us. And yeah, we love to be liked.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

We I need to after being with my teenager for 10 days.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Right, especially. Yeah, give a special like to Ana Luisa. We love you all. Take care. Adios, adios, and time for the last conversation at the end of life.