SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hey, welcome back everybody to another episode of End of Life Conversations. I bet you you haven't thought about this. I know I hadn't thought about it before we talked to this next guest. What if you you've just had your person die and you're pretty sure that they had life insurance, or you know they did?

SPEAKER_01 0:19

You know they do. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

You got the paperwork, you got everything in hand, like you did all of the work that we've been asking you to do for three years of this. And you go and you send it in, and in the midst of grieving and loss and everything else, it comes back denied. And that we were surprised, but that it's actually something that happens more often than you would believe.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Yeah. So and it is, you know, not a fault of us as individuals who are helping sculpt this um document for our loved ones, you know, when we pass. It really is a lot of language with the agents and how you know it's set up, uh how you, as the person who is left behind in this moment of grief and like travailing, there's bills to be paid, hospitals are knocking on your door. Can you access that uh those funds? And most of the time you'll get them, but you have to do it in a certain way to keep you safe. So listen up. Our next guest is a pro at this, and she will share some of those.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

And then the podcast notes will have more um guidance toward that. So really important and something that we hope you'll listen to all the way through and tell all your friends and subscribe and all that stuff. Thanks so much. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Adios. Welcome back to our end of life conversations podcast. I am the Reverend Mother Annalouiza Ramandades. And on today's episode, we are speaking with Stephanie Prestridge. Stephanie is an attorney and founder of Life Claim, a law practice focused exclusively on life insurance disputes. She represents beneficiaries when claims are delayed, denied, or disputed, including employer-sponsored policies and complex beneficiary conflicts.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Mm-hmm. Yeah. We're glad to meet meet Steffi when I called her the first time. I was like, oh, wow, I hadn't thought about that one. Who does that? Do they actually deny life insurance? That's not the way it's supposed to work. You know. So I am uh the Reverend Waquil, David Matthews. Steffi spent nearly two decades practicing estate planning before focusing her life on this life insurance disputes issues. Um, that experience gave her a unique perspective on the gap between how families plan for what happens after a death and what can happen when life insurance claim doesn't go as expected, which is a sad comment on our world today.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yep, it's pretty not unusual.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yeah. So welcome, Stephanie. And I'd like to know what inspired you to do this work?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

So I kind of fell into this work, to be honest. Um, I I was doing estate planning and I loved it. I was really good at it. I loved my clients. I just I I enjoyed every part of that practice. And as part of that, you know, we always look at, you know, financial assets that people have and and you know, making sure that we understand the why and and the transfer and and everybody's wishes. And and I had a client where we were looking at the life insurance. We were gonna need it to care for, you know, you know, preteen children and then close out of business, handle some debts. And when that person passed away and spouse called me, I asked her, was the first question I asked her was, have you made a claim for the life insurance? And she said, you know, funny enough, they said they weren't going to pay it. And and I said the exact same thing that you did, actually, was that's that's not how life insurance works. That's no you you must have gotten that wrong. That's not how that works. And and it was flabbergasting, you know, just like it this it's not supposed to happen. This is supposed to be the easy part. And right, I started see, right? And then I started seeing it happen more and more often. And I, you know, I'll tell people that my husband sat me down, he's also a lawyer's best lawyer I know, and and he sat me down and he said, Stephanie, if this is happening to your clients, it's happening everywhere. And he said that not because just because he loves me, but he said it because he was um I he knew how I ran my practice. I had clients that I wouldn't take a client unless they had a financial advisor. So so I knew I could say where your stuff goes when you pass, but I needed to make sure you had enough to live. And and you didn't need me if you didn't have enough to live. So when we started working as a team and my clients who had their advisors and their legal counsel and had really gone through everything, when my clients are coming in with denied, delayed, and disputed claims, then there's there's a bigger problem. And I just slowly shifted my entire practice over to that because it just bothered me so much. And I it just it still bothers me, you know, 10 years in, it still bothers me.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Yeah, yeah. We often comment on how we love this work because we talked to so many people over and over again that see a problem and find a way to work on it. And so really appreciate you taking that on and and coming to talk to us about it because I'm sure a lot of our audience is gonna think the same thing I did. It's like, what? That that's not how that works, is it? Um and so we want to hear more about it. So tell us a little more about the work you're doing and what you found and and uh how it's how it's going from you know how you're what you're finding out.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Absolutely. So I um I have to have to credit my husband with this because it it he was he's very feisty, right? He was like, this is not okay. He he's he's very much so the the litigator between the two of us. And I had a harder time accepting that this could happen, right? And and I come at it from a very different perspective. I'm not necessarily just a lawyer who's a litigator. I I I don't like fighting with people, but I I fell into this practice because I loved my clients. And in and in my practice, I didn't just learn to love my clients, I love their family because I was planning for their family, right? So I I got to know grandma and grandpa, I got to know about the family business and the and the kid who has the best heart but can't manage money, and then you know, all of their hopes and their dreams and their aspirations and their worries. And and when we were building plans looking at how to use these assets to the best, you know, possible way to benefit everyone, and then they're not coming through. And I'm watching planning fall apart, I'm watching families fall apart because of something they didn't understand. And the things that really caught me, and and maybe you'll see this too, we're asking people to navigate a system when they are least capable of navigating a system. So when your grief is high, your worries are high, your your stress level is just out of control because maybe you're thinking about caring for family, you're worried about paying bills, all of the everyday things that we normally can handle, you know, in stride, now it's amplified by a loss and all of the questions and processes that come with that. So when we've got this grief that's really impeding our ability to move forward, we are still expecting people to go through this paperwork process. And it's not an easy process. It's really not. It's not just filling out the claim form, it's understanding what people are asking. It's understanding what do we have? Where do we go look for it? What's the process to get the form? Do I need to ask somebody else to sign it? What if I'm not the beneficiary? Is this the only thing that we have? What do we do with it? And then that's just that's just the beginning. And then when people start calling and asking questions, you know, my gosh, tell me what was going on. And they're asking medical questions like they're concerned. But what they're really doing is interviewing you and getting information that they can put in a file that they're referencing to see does that match what the application said? Does that match what the medical records say? And then, and then we're sending letter after letter after letter, we need this, we want this, or there's a delay, or we're researching this. People don't understand the process.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

We talk about grief brain all the time. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

And it's hard just on a paperwork process on your best day. You know, you get five letters and and you're not sure, did I send it to the right person? Did I fill it out right? I've I've seen parents fill out a claim form where they were signing as the deceased because they didn't understand the form.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

And and I'm not blaming the insurance company for that. I'm just saying this is reality. And and we have such an abundance of available information in this world, right? You can get on the internet now, you can go to you know an AI bot and just ch type in any question. You have all of this information, but we have so much information and so little understanding. And that's the part that hurts. So that's how I really ended up dovetailing straight into this this practice because it didn't matter how much information we put out there if there wasn't an understanding of the process generally, and then the pitfalls and how they trick you and what you do to to manage that and negotiate that.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

I have a question. So I I would say I don't know the percentage you probably do, but statistically, not everybody's going to have life insurance policies in this country. Like it's something that people who with financial stability usually pay for. And so, you know, I I they there's probably a team of people at that point working to try to get them their the services that they need. But my my curiosity is around I know that people whose spouses die and they ask for the Social Security. Is that something you work with as well? Or is that something similar in terms of the paperwork load that families come into?

SPEAKER_00 10:23

So there's definitely a paperwork load. I don't handle those cases at all. And and what what I will tell you, what is interesting though, is you're right, not everyone in the United States has life insurance coverage, but it's actually a higher percentage than you would realize. It's it's more than 50%. I want to say it's closer to 60% of the population has life insurance. And one of the things that we fail to account for is a lot of individuals get life insurance through their employer.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

So there's way more individuals or families that have coverage because most of the time we're thinking about going to the agent down the road to get a policy and cover yourself. But but many, many companies offer life insurance as an employee benefit. And so that's a wonderful benefit to have. So it's it's out there, it's more prevalent than you realize. Um and the paperwork load, however you get it, is hard to manage on a bad day. Um and then it's it's just one, knowing that you have it and then what to do with it when someone passes with it.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Or on the flip side, I know I've met people, a few people over the course of my lifetime who thought they had life insurance, but because they've changed jobs, that went away. And so they were convinced that that that carried past that employer, but that's not the case. So there's a lot of like process. Yeah, well, it's not it's it's it's not labeled as you don't get to keep this if you leave the job, right? So most people just assume I have it and they don't.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

So it's fresh. I imagine it's also cases where people have no idea that their person has life insurance because they it's part of their business. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

I took a call today um a few hours ago where somebody's like, you know, I was raised by my aunt and my uncle, and I think they had life insurance. And I said, I hope they did, but I can't find it for you. And I have have a lot of resources that I can share, but a crystal ball is not one of them. And and that's it's it's heartbreaking. I hate saying that to people. I hate saying, I'm so sorry. And I say, I'm so sorry more often than not. But but in every I'm sorry, I'm following it up with I'm so sorry this happened to you. The greatest thing you can do is if you've got family or neighbors, are you having this conversation? Are you letting them know? Because if if if you've experienced this, I promise you someone close to you has experienced this and gone through it. And and to your point about, you know, the it's called conversion of those policies. Somebody retires or they change jobs. You are absolutely right that it is um it's a travesty because it's so frustrating. And and no one is really available to walk you through step by step on how to do that. Not every company has that benefit of explaining it. Right. I I've I've had people call me up and say, Well, I had 60 days to move it over. You're right, you did have 60 days to move it over, but if you didn't do it in the first 30 days, then you have to reapply for medical confirmation. And they didn't know that. They all they heard was 60 days. Well, okay. Yep. There's all of these pieces.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's so important. And I I appreciate when I was looking through the materials that you sent, uh, that there is um a tool out there, I think, through the insurance, I forget what you can maybe tell us, that will allow you to search and see if your person has um life insurance that you may not even know about, which is something that's probably and I actually in my class I just added that to my list of things to do when you're getting ready and preparing for the end of life is find out if your person has life insurance or if you have life insurance, you might not even know it, you might forgot or whatever. Um and is it up, is it paid up? Is it uh yeah, all those things that, as you're saying, can just be lost in the shuffle of life, and especially when you're when your mind is overwhelmed by grief and loss.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Absolutely. So the the site that you're talking about is the NAIC, and and it is a site where you can go, it's it's it's basically all of the insurance commissioners across the country, and and they have this site where you can go in, and if you don't have any idea where to begin, you can enter in like the um the deceased person's name, hopefully you have their address, social date of death, as much information as possible, right? And you can enter it in there and then hope that they can find information for you. And what they're really looking for is they're sending out information to every insurance company and every insurance commissioner across the country to see do you see anything out there, right? And if there is a policy out there and if you are the right person to request that information. So if you are a beneficiary, then they'll send you an answer. But if you are not the right person, or if there is not a policy, they don't even respond.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

And it takes at least six to twelve weeks, and then you could be waiting forever. And then it that does not account for your your uh work-related policies.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

So there's this huge gap there.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

It's just go ahead. No, it's just I have I'm so sorry, but it all seems so scammy. You are not the first to say that. Because, you know, it just feels like they they they're hoping their corporate board will make more money. And, you know, there's they're gonna lose a lot of people will lose track of paperwork and and have, you know, brain fog around you know, this acute time of death. And I was just thinking about how many, you know, families may have left their disabled kiddo as a beneficiary, thinking that kid will now have the money, and maybe that kid doesn't have the capacity to understand paperwork and do the thing, and it just goes away. And, you know, then they're just it's so yeah, it just feels like I don't know, are there safeguards for people? Because it feels like they're just we're just trusting that a corporation will actually take care of us. And I'm not hearing that they really do.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah, one of your first things on your list was they are not your friend.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

They are not, they are not. However, and I try very, very hard to be very neutral. I I love this question because you and my husband are on the same page. He gets, he's, he's like, he's err. And and so I I love your heart in that. I I love that.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

And I and I'm and I'm gonna say it's not just my heart, it's because I come from more of a middle class uh POC situation, you know, and I'm just like, there are so many more people in my situation than in yours or Joaquill's. And, you know, we do tend to suffer more and lose more of our money. And even last night, my father was, you know, we're talking about his end of life, you know, little desires. And he said, you know, maybe I will go give my money to a funeral home and get everything ready. I'm like, I don't want you to do that. Because there's a huge industry that makes money off of, well, we can't find the paperwork, the funeral home changed hands, we're now under a different direction. I'm like, let's just put it in a bank account, high interest yield, and make me, you know, co-partner in that, and then I will take care of it. But so it just feels, yeah, it just feels like I I wish there were more safeguards for for the common woman and man.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

So I I will first follow this up with thank you for sharing that. Like I I agree with you. I absolutely agree with you. And and I try very hard, I have have significant issues with big corporations, right? And and I agree. I feel like I I absolutely believe that they are banking on your on our grief. Yeah. And and that they they are they are able to take advantage of that. Now, I will also tell you, I'm not gonna say that the insurance company is always a bad actor, right? Because it there has to be rules somewhere. We don't have to like the rules, but at some point there's got to be a rule. You have to make a claim this way, you have to, you know, update this way. I don't like it, but but I I understand it, right? And then at some point, we have to be responsible for our own stuff at some point. And and I'm yeah, I'm not saying that the insurance company is right because they're not. But at the same time, I'm more angry at the person who sold a policy and didn't explain that there's the person who's insured, that there's a beneficiary, that there's an owner. I'm more angry that the person who's giving the basic information that could change someone's life, but that information is not being given at the right time. And that's not necessarily the insurance company's fault. So I I love these conversations because you are doing for others what should have been done ages ago, which is hey, by the way, whether you think you need it, you love it, or you think it's a scam, let's talk about the pieces because knowing those pieces might make a huge difference for you. And I I'll I'll share a personal story. Um, I've done this for years, and and I do it because I actually believe in life insurance. I know the good that it can do when it comes through. And true point, most of them pay out. It's the ones that don't that cause catastrophes because that's the biggest catastrophe going on. And someone's like, but most of them do pay out. I have a sister by choice whose um her brother passed away in a car accident. And I knew I knew that he had, you know, been hit in a uh truck and that there was all kinds of issues going on, and and I knew that she was grieving. And I um that's it, that's all I knew. You know, I was there for the loss, for the family, for the grieving. And I was working with her on something different years later, and we were talking about her brother, and she was mentioning the life insurance, and I was like, you know I do that. And and she stopped and she's like, We love one another. We're we're family by choice, and I didn't understand all of the nuances of what you do. Did you know that they didn't pay that policy, that we almost went bankrupt handling this? And and I cried, I cried because you want to know who who was at fault there? Me. Me, because I didn't share what I do with the people that my the people that I love, much less my clients, right? And and I took that so personally because she said, and it's it's actually all over our website now, it's not just business. We get business. You got to run your business, you gotta meet your shareholders' expectations. I don't have to like it, but I will appreciate and understand it. But it's not just business, it's personal. And what's really happening when they don't pay out for whatever reason, right, wrong, or in between, most people walk away from that saying, you're it's like you're saying my person had no worth. Right? That their lives had no value. And we know that's not true, but it's not just business. It's personal.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah. It is. And you know, with that too, the the trauma continues because your sister there continues to probably there's a lot of berated feelings against herself for not understanding how to do it and the shame of like going almost bankrupt. And Yeah, that is just this constant trauma cycle wound. When we don't get asked their questions or we don't tell the people we need, you know, how to do things. So Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Which is why these conversations matter. It's why I'm so thankful to be here and and and talk about this on every level, not just uh, you know, not just this is what legal services can do, but but let me tell you what happens because we don't talk about the most important intrinsic pieces of this.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Yeah, I'm I'm actually really curious. Like literally, my dad came into town yesterday and we had sat down for dinner and we started talking about death and dying and just because it's a constant, it's a constant conversation we're always having. And yeah, I think he did say, he's like, oh, you know, you're part of this bank, you know, use the credit card associated with it, and then the the life insurance will pay it out. But you just said something, it was like six to 12 weeks out, right? You don't know how long it's gonna take to get the thing. So I need to, you know, tell them, I'm like, let's not, let's like go through that piece of paper because yeah, just look at it.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

I was telling someone earlier today, they were um talking about how in their family very military, and they're like, we are dress, right, dress. We we go over every sheet of paper, we know where everything is, just that's just how our family functions. And my in-laws are very different. Like they don't talk about it because if you talk about it, it could happen, right? And and I said, you know, I I absolutely get that. I have a different perspective. One because this is my business, but I really have to credit my my grandmother, and I call her mama. Um, so I have to credit my mama with this because when she was doing her estate work, which included life insurance and retirement, but when she was doing her planning, she called the family together. And we have a wonderful family. I don't do big family gatherings. Like I love them, but I'm not gonna go to a huge family Christmas. It's just it's too much, too many people. And and but she called us all together as a you know, full family unit. And she said, You can tell me what you want. Like if you want the jewelry box or the silver or the silverware, or you know, like like the bed, whatever it is, tell me what you want. And then she said, but you have to tell me why. And it was the most beautiful thing my mama has ever given me because at that moment I learned more about my family than I have ever learned about them before or since, because we knew the joy that they had attached to certain things. We learned about the worries that they were having for themselves, for their kids, for, you know, my mama. And it was so beautiful to hear that. And a conversation that could have been so uncomfortable, even, even, you know, like like frustrating, what turned into this be, it was so joyful. It was such a gift. I'm so thankful for that more than more than just about anything else. That conversation was such a gift in my life. And I share that because when you're looking at all of the the boring parts of it, okay, well, where do we bank? And hey, does this bank, you know, it sounds like a credit union? Credit union usually has like a, you know, a life insurance, you know, like offer through there, you know, what kind is it? You know, do I pay for it? How much is it? All of those intricacies, you know, the boring like facts, they don't become uncomfortable or as boring, right? Because they're part of that joyful conversation. I want you to know a bank here because I like the teller. And by the way, because I bank here, I get this. Like it's I maybe that's just me, maybe I'm odd, but I love leaning into those conversations like that.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

No, I think that's why we're here. That's why we're here. And that's what yeah, and it's just one more, one more time over and over and over again. Like is what we really advocate for people to have these conversations because when they don't, and you've seen this and we've seen this, it's really the catastrophe. That's the catastrophe that we see most often is the way it divides families. And uh the statistic we saw of 60 some percent of siblings never talk to each other after their parent dies. Um that that just you know, over and over again we hear these things. And yeah, so the conversation is so important. And now we've got one more thing to add to the conversation. What about life insurance? It's actually to say all the other things. Ugh.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Taxes.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

I think it's easy to say that these things keep talking even when you're gone. So you I told someone that you know, you don't you don't have to share your stuff. That is your right. You are not obligated, you know, legally, morally, ethically, like there's you are not obligated to share that information. And I respect that. I don't I don't necessarily enjoy it when you're gone, but I respect it. But if you don't have the conversation now, when you die, it's still having a conversation without you.

unknown 26:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

And and what it what that conversation is saying and what people are hearing may not be what you intended. So why don't you have it now and have it with some joy as versus leaving an unfinished conversation that morphs into something maybe you never intended.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

So so well put. Thank you. Yeah.

unknown 27:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

All right. So what are your biggest challenges in the work that you do?

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Saying no, saying I'm sorry. I yeah, I I'd just me personally, I have to learn how to work on having a different perspective and and be thankful that I get to say no, I guess, because at least at least more information is going out. But it it hurts every day. You know, and I was at work yesterday on a Sunday for, you know, six hours returning calls, telling people, I reviewed what you sent me. And and let me tell you why I can't help you. And it's not, it's not going to make you feel better, but I want you to walk away with a little bit more knowledge on this and explain how this process works. And and maybe I can't help you. It doesn't mean it's completely shut a door. Let me give you some ideas on where to move forward. But it it it kind of takes a little bit away every day to tell someone I'm so sorry. Or or to be the bad guy saying, I'm so sorry that when you've got this, somebody didn't explain this better. And now I'm the bad guy because I'm having to explain it. And I'll I will I will wear that. I will own it. But I'm so sorry. I think that's the hardest part for me is having to say that. Um and just, yeah, personally, I think that's the hardest part of it. And then having to, you know, take the time to explain to people each of these pieces of the paper and how they work and how they work together and try to maintain some neutrality. I'm always gonna advocate for my clients, but then I don't want to say an entire industry is bad. I don't think that's fair either. And I think it, you know, it doesn't put anyone in a good light if it's all black or white. Um so it that's that's the hardest parts for me is to, you know, educate and be fair.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

I think that's the hardest, that's the it's a really hard piece too, because uh we don't know enough and we don't and we reach out that this is a problem too, right? Because they're reaching out to you or people reach out to whomever at the end of life or past the death of a loved one, and you know, we we like kind of reach out in the dark trying to find support, and then it turns out like it's all bungled and you're not really gonna get the support you need. And it just again, I want to say it just like it creates this monumental trauma and like it almost feels like desertion of you know, humanity just deserts you in this really crucial time. And I mean, I think that you know, having a nonprofit to help people to to be kind of um advocates for people at the at these times because there's just so few people helping, you know, and and to try and to like navigate these incredibly kind of ponderous m mazes of of you know the industrial paperwork trail. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Well, I'm a lawyer, so I love the paper. Um, but I am and and I I say that you know facetiously. I it's nice to have paper to back things up, but I I think what's really hard now is that you know we now have AI and we now have uh, you know, like the internet, and we can run so many questions and try to get so much so many answers because there's an abundance of information out there and and we should access it, right? What's really hard is is you can you can get information, but no one knows if they're asking the right question.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

And if you don't ask the right question, the information you're getting, it's nice. And and I I literally um just the other week I have, you know, like a social media account personal, but I when my posts was like, just just please, for the love of all that is holy and sacred, please do not use Chat GPT to to give you legal advice because I just had to have an hour-long conversation with someone to explain that what you got was what you wanted.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Not what was not what you needed.

unknown 31:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Oh, that's a good song, man. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Um but but it's like and and yeah, and we know that AI is has you know makes mistakes and hallucinates. And um, you know, it's it's um people have become too addicted, not uh not addicted, but just to count count on it too much and need to recognize one of the responsibilities of using that tool is recognizing that it gets things wrong and making taking the time to really double check or ask somebody who knows. Um, cross-reference. Yeah, yeah. So that's part of the our uh hard work we have. We you know, it's every with every with every tool comes another challenge. And thankfully we have people like yourself and um you know other ways to check and make sure things are are real. Um do you let's see. Well, you know, I I love what you just said, and I think I want to kind of jump right into this next question because of that, because of that feeling of just you know uh how much it hurts to have to say this is just not gonna happen. I'm so sorry. What what do you do to take care of yourself when you when you get overwhelmed by those things?

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Oh well, I'm the most blessed person in the world. Um I I love my husband and I love our babies, and I am I I don't know what I ever did to deserve them, but I I have such an incredible resource to go home to. And and so to be able to go home and just, you know, whether it's a hug or just, you know, to laugh at my silly kids, like I I have that to lift me back up and and and I have a very strong faith. And you know, I I'm I'm very quiet in my faith. It's you know, I'm not one to, you know, share it often, but I believe. And I I go home and I pray and I think and and I try to lean into that there's a greater wisdom than mine out there. And and I I try very hard to just love people to the best of my ability. I think that's my purpose in life is to love big, always to love big. And even when it hurts me to say no, I'm so thankful. I have people who they're like, I know I can't work with you, but I wanted to send you a picture of my daughter. Isn't she beautiful? Um or thank you for explaining this to me because no one else listened. And I I love like when you were talking about a nonprofit and how much good it brings. I'm I'm so ready for more people. Like I love processes and I love progress, but I think that we forget the fundamental importance of peopleing. And even when I have to say no, I'm there, I'm gonna listen. I'm gonna come in on a Sunday and I can't help you, but I'm gonna be on the phone for an hour and I'm gonna listen to why you're angry, and I'm gonna listen to this amazing journey that your sibling was going on before they passed away. And and I'm gonna say, please send me a picture, please keep me updated as you move on. I'm peopleing as much as I'm lawyering. And that's a gift. It's a hard gift, but it's a gift, and I'm I'm so thankful for it.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Yeah, yeah. And I want to just also um acknowledge and thank you for the information you sent, which we'll we'll offer we'll post on the podcast notes, that really is helpful, a good way to just start thinking about these things and start really understanding them. Um, you know, of course, we'd love that there are more people like Steph, or Steffi, around that you could contact. But um in the meantime, the work, the the kind of guidelines that you gave us, and I think they're on your website, is that right? Or yes, yes, that that are just that are really important for us to understand and to to begin to really pay attention to. So thank you so much for that. I appreciate it and all your work. I really appreciate you the way you're coming at this. It's it's really worthwhile and important.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

I I I love it. And and I've I've listened to so many of y'all's episodes, and I love your guests. Like, I love listening to all of the solutions that they bring to the table to help take care of people. And and I was I was listening to them. I always I'm a note taker, it's just you know what I do. And I um I have a note off to the side. I'm like, I don't know what I bring to the table because I was like, I don't, I don't have like some tangible solution other than I know I know enough to be able to give you guidance and and listen. But I was just huge. Yeah, I was so honored to be here and and be a part of that elite crowd.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Yeah. Well, it takes all kinds. I mean, I think that I I believe that all of our guests are great listeners. And even if the tangible aspect is sharing the gifts that they have, the the the knowledge, the wisdom, and bringing it to people who are in a key crisis. Like you have exactly what that is.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So true. So we appreciate you very much. Um is there anything you wish we would have asked before we wind this up?

SPEAKER_00 36:16

You know, there's so many questions that you know, I could be so technical about asking about like life insurance in general or you know, questions and um that's I don't it's just it needs to be asked, but it's it's boring. Like, you know, where is it? What do you do with it? What do you want? Like those are conversations we all need, we we all know we need to have. I think that I wish people knew coming out of this conversation that if somebody says no, that doesn't mean it's the end of the road, right? Just that that you may have options and it's okay to ask, right? And then more importantly, coming out of this, knowing that regardless of what happens, whether everything pays out beautifully or there's issues or you know, denials, delays, whatever happens, that that you were loved and your person mattered. No matter what else happens, take a take that away from it because all of the all of the legal advice and skills that I bring to the table, they're great. But all that really matters is that you were loved and your person mattered. Yeah, regardless of what happens.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

Yeah. And I actually love the quote that you sent us because it totally says just what we were talking about.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Have you seen that movie?

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Yeah. Uh the yeah, yeah, yeah. I have the beard.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

And robots? Oh, robots. No, I don't think I have.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Oh yeah. Anyway, you want to you want to read the read the quote or just say it out loud for us and tell us where you got it?

SPEAKER_00 37:53

See a need, fill a need. Um my kids were little, we you know, obviously watch cartoons, and there's a it's not old, it's just not brand new, uh, cartoon robots. And and one of the characters was Big Willed, and he was like this main robot that ran a company in an industry. And and his his statement was see a need, fill a need. And it it just stuck with me, you know, when I'm at home and I'm looking at my, you know, almost 13-year-old son and I'm like, the garbage is overflowing. Did you see a need? So fill a need in the trench can, you know. Uh so Big Well has stuck with us. I I think he wishes I had not watched that movie. That's right. Changed lives. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

So yeah, no, it's so so so fitting for. So apropos, yes, yes, yes. So thank you so much. Thank you so much. Appreciate you, and um, we will let you know when this goes live.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Absolutely. Thank you all so much. I love what y'all do. Like, I'm I'm so honored to be here. Um thank you.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

Thank you for joining us today. Thank you to Charles Heastan, the composer of the original music you are listening to now.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

And of course, thanks to you, our audience, and all of our amazing guests. Please come back next week for another great episode. Share this with your friends, family, and community. We hope you will subscribe and follow us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, and Substack. Each guest additional information will be found in the podcast notes. And of course, if you have a good end of life story to share, please reach out. We're always eager to hear from you.